hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

[kjb]

I am working on a black 2007 Lexus ES350. I haved removed the "buffer trail marks" that another detailer put in the finish. I began by using m205 with a yellow pad. There were a few areas that I needed to use M105 and a yellow pad. I finished up with m205 and a black pad. The "buffer trail marks" are gone, but now I have alot of areas that have a "hologram" look to it. I tried varying the speed of the da from 5 down to 3. I also tried using m09 with the black pad at various speeds, but no luck. I have used clean pads and still the sam. I haven't ran into this issue before. Please help.

[xantonin]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

Perhaps the black pad was not aggressive enough to remove the haze marks the M105 left behind.

I haven't had any problems with M205 on a yellow pad. My only guess is that you are trying to avoid causing haze marks with the M205 and so you're being too light with it.

[kjb]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

I thought the same thing too. I tried using a yellow pad with m205 and the issue seemed to get worse.

[xantonin]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

Interesting...

Perhaps you were right then in using the black pad on the lower speed setting. The haze that you saw, any possibility it was a trail left behind from the microfiber when you were wiping off the product? Is there a chance you can take a photo of it?

Sometimes my fibers will leave trails behind so I often switch to a completely dry one, or an Ultimate Wipe...

[Murr1525]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

If the paint seems very soft, you can try a cleaner/wax. Do you have any to try?

[al_h]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

Whether #205 finishes "good enough" is a topic of great debate:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/125599-m205-users-how-you-finishing.html

#205 is also known to leave "excess" residual oil on the surface after being worked in. We often read about this being a problem with #205 on Detailing World or Autopia. Remove this residual oil before determining if your paint is marred or hazed.

On your commonly soft Lexus black paint, #205 may need a follow-up with a finer polish. Even when #205 finishes well enough on harder BLACk paints, many users still do a follow-up with Ultrafina for that extra gloss. It's an optional step for most people. On softer black paint, you may want to do just that.

Furthermore, with #205 you will want to keep your pads clean and do shorter working cycle to prevent marring caused by the pad being insufficiently lubricated. That's rarely the case with the DA, in my opinion, but it is still possible under varying conditions.

[kjb]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

I don't believe that it is the microfiber doing this. I thought the same thing and so I tried wiping in a different direction to see if this is the cause. I'm not sure how to post a picture, but I do have one to show. Please help on posting a picture. Thanks.

[xantonin]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

You can upload pictures by using the forums Gallery and the Upload Pictures section

[kjb]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

Here is a picture of what I'm describing.

[kjb]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

I did pick up a cleaner/wax last night, but have not had a chance to try it yet. I am perplexed as to what is causing this. I only notice this on the lower parts of the doors. For the most part I don't see this anywhere else. I did post a picture of the issue. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

Here is a picture of what I'm describing.

Apparently you've sent another image of the car to Rick McDonough showing the entire passenger side of the vehicle. And it is simply loaded with holograms!!! In your picture here on MOL it's obvious that you've got some very well defined side to side lines going on there, and this would lead us to believe you may be using too much product and it's not getting wiped completely off.

Give this a shot with the D/A: apply just a thin ring of M205 to a finishing pad, set the tool on speed 4 and work just a 2' x 2' area for several minutes with light to moderate pressure. You should be able to work this area for quite a long time as M205 provides a very generous buffing cycle. You should see just a very, very thin and translucent film of product before stopping - it should almost be gone. Not quite fully gone, but close. Now wipe this off with a clean, dry microfiber towel.

Before going any further, give this section a critical evaluation in strong light. If the holograms have not been removed you may need to use that same finishing pad on a rotary at no more than 1,000 rpm with slow, even passes to remove them. As noted previously, they look pretty darn severe in the photo you sent to Rick. If the holograms are gone, and this is critical, apply only 5 or 6 pea sized drops of M205 to the pad and move on to the next 2' x 2' section. As you continue around the vehicle, continue to use M205 sparingly - a little goes a long way here.

Keep us posted on your progress.


One other thing - can you give us some detailed information on the process used to inflict all those holograms in the first place? Not trying to bust anyone's chops here, but somebody may need to review their rotary use in order to avoid that level of hologramming in the future. Was a wool pad used? What speed was the rotary run at? How large an area was worked at a time, and how quickly was the tool moved over the paint? All of these will play a role in the amount of holograms inflicted on the paint.

[kjb]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

I don't have a rotary, but could probably borrow one if I need to. I always work the M205 until it looks almost like a clear film. It's also easier to wipe off with a microfiber when it's this way. It's possible I might be using too much and will try your suggestion. I can say that I have worked these areas for a very long time and the results are the same. Is it possible that I can remove the defects without using a rotory?

As far as the process that was used I couldn't tell you for sure. What I can tell you is that I have tried to work with our management to straighten out these issues. The guys will use a wool pad alot, and also will use a maroon pad on the da. Until our management decides to make strategic changes this will not ever get fixed. Believe me, I've been trying for one year. Thanks.

Any other suggestions for repairing this car?

[kjb]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

Ok, let me give an update. This is what has worked. m205 very sparingly on a yellow pad using speed 6 (G100). I made a two to three passes using very firm pressure. I then turned the speed to 4 using a little less pressure than the weight of the DA. This is amazing the difference in results. I haven't seen the vehicle in the sunlight yet, but I have a Brinkmann light which was revealing the previous concern so I'm confident of this fix. I will report back after looking in the sunlight. Thanks for your help. fficeffice" />

[Michael Stoops]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

Good to hear you're finally making some headway - would love to see some images of the final result.

It's a shame that the guys are taking the most aggressive approach they can find, regardless of tool, when many times slowing down actually makes the total process go faster.

[StadiumDetail]

Re: hazing/marring after removing buffer trail marks

a little late but I will add my $0.02.

I had this exact same problem today on a 1997 forest green BMW M roadster. I tried various speeds, pads, techniques, varied the amount of 205, everything I could think of and nothing seemed to touch it. To me it honestly looked like the 205 wasn't even cutting the haze, holos. After 30 min of this I figured i'd just try a third step for the hell of it. A little Ultrafina on a finishing pad cleared it up with little to no effort.

this was all with a rotary btw with ISP wipes after each step.

After this experience I've come to the conclusion this is the reason for the "205 finishes well enough" debate. Maybe some paints are just difficult to get just right.


On a side note, thank you Meguiars! I'm just starting with the 105/205 experience and I have to say they are everything I hoped they were. No hype here, just a great product!