Should I buy a DA??

[76Celica]

I have just bought a rotary buff but think I would be better off with a Meguiar's G220 Dual Action Machine Polisher? I am in Australia and am finding it difficult to buy accessories for the rotary and seem to not be experienced enough to use it as I keep creating swirl marks. Would it be work shelling out $300 for a DA? I only detail for interest and do about a car a week for learning and fun.

[BarryK]

Re: Should I buy a DA??

to save myself some typing I'm going to copy a response I made to another member back in Sept who asked about the differences between rotary and DA buffers:

A rotary buffer has a higher learning curve to it and takes more practice to get good with. It's generally more powerful and has higher speeds than a DA (Dual Action) buffer and it's much easier to damage or harm the paint if you don't know what you are doing or get careless with it.

A DA buffer is much easier to use, has a much shorter learning curve and is generally considered "almost" idiot proof. To really inflict damage to the paint you practically have to actually work at it hard. Units like the PC or Megs DA units have a clutch built in that will stop the spinning of the pad if you apply too much pressure. In addition, the fact that DA has TWO separate rotation forces going at once helps so that not too much concentration and heat is applied at any given area and that inherently helps to not harm the paint.

A rotary buffer can buff out a vehicle faster than a DA buffer and can remove much more severe defects than DA can - although with the right pad, an aggressive compound like M105, and a good technique a DA can remove some pretty serious defects
The DA may take a bit longer but for someone new to buffing is a MUCH safer choice of equipment to start learning.

The new upgraded PC7424XP, or Megs G110 are both very good units to learn on and will do an excellent job.
The Flex 3401 is a bit more powerful than the PC or Megs units and tends to get classified as "in between" the PC or Megs units and a rotary.
I have the Flex 3401 and find it to be an excellent unit. Easy to learn, easy to use, and produces outstanding results if used correctly.

most people will probably tell you that to start learning the use of a buffer to go with a DA unit first to learn the basics than if you have the desire or need to go up to a rotary THAN step up. You will need to learn the use of a rotary that is somewhat different than a DA but you will have already learned the basics of buffing in general.

BTW, many people use both. Even after stepping up to a rotary a lot of people keep using their DA buffers also. They will use the rotary for the "heavy" work such as the rough compounding with product such as M105, than turn to the DA units for final polishing.

Buffing a car with power buffer is a skill to be learned like an other skill but usually within a short time of practice a DA can be operated to achieve good result.

now, having explained that and considering you already have a rotary buffer you have a few options.
1. get a hood from an older car or truck from a junkyard and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE with your rotary to learn how to best use it and hone your skills on it.
2. Buy a good DA buffer. This will STILL involve a fair amount of practice before you get excellent results but the learning curve of a DA is shorter than the learning curve of a rotary and you will get good results with a DA faster than you will with a rotary.
3. Keep the rotary AND get a DA buffer as well. Practice on both and learn how to properly use both. It's never a bad idea to learn multiple things and this would gave you the advantage of knowledge of bith types of buffers and now you can choose what is best depending on the type of vehicle you work on and the type/amount of corrections you need to do. Having more than one weapon in your arsenal is a handy thing.
In fact, MANY professional detailers are using both types of buffers anyway - they will use a rotary for the heavy work such as the compounding and than do the final polishing with a DA.

MY personal recommendations based on what you state as only doing one car a week is to go with option #2. The alternative recommendation would be #3.
I wouldn't go with option #1 (rotary buffer only) as it may become too frustrating dealing with the learning curve of a rotary for only one car a week

[76Celica]

Re: Should I buy a DA??

That information is perfect. I have been reading for about two hours to get that specific info so thanks! I will buy the G220 off ebay with a free pad tonight. My housemate has two spare bonnets so I will practice on them over the weekend.
I have a black car next week with cobwebs and paint overspray. Once I get the DA, what's the best way to do the black car? It's a 2008 Suzuki Swift.
I was thinking:
1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Clay!
4. UC with DA??
5. SwirlX??
6. Wax??

Or should I be going with M20.. or staying with the softer style?

Thanks again for the input on the options. I will keep both and 'master' the styles with beat up panels and hours of practice!!

[Murr1525]

Re: Should I buy a DA??

Generally, you will want to apply product with the foam pads, not the bonnets. So you may need more foam pads.

You would want to do a teest spot/panel with SwirLX first, esp being your first time. Get it out i nthe light ,see how it looks, before moving on.

[BarryK]

Re: Should I buy a DA??

keep in mind that you will want to order up an assortment of various cutting, polishing, and finishing pads. It's good to have a minimum of 2-3 or each type.

with your listed 6 steps on the Suzuki you only need to clay once, not twice.
on steps 4 & 5 it's impossible for us to tell you if you need SwirlX or UC without seeing the vehicle (pics) and even than all we can do is guess. YOPU need to determine how aggressive you need to go by doing a test spot or a few test spots once you get the car there. This is also where a lot of the learning curve of machine buffing comes in. Sometimes a milder polish such as SwirlX may not seems like it's enough but than try it again with a more aggressive type of pad and it could be perfect or maybe you do need to jump up to a more aggressive product like the UC. Only a test spot will show you this. It all comes down to how bad the defects are that need correcting and how hard or soft the paint is.

[76Celica]

Re: Should I buy a DA??

so practice and some more practice. will grab on to the DA and just work my way into it. thanks again for your help with this.

[Ganesa]

Re: Should I buy a DA??

yup...
so you need to get more pads for your da, probably 2-3x Polishing Pads, 2 Finishing Pads to start off with.. and dont forget to get a quality Microfibre like the Megs Supreme Shine MF to buff with, so that you dont create new scratches or swirls after you used the DA..

so a plan like:
1. Wash
2. Clay
3. clean (Use SwirlX first, if that result doesnt satisfy you, use Ultimate Compound in this step and follow up with SwirlX in step 4)
4. SwirlX
5. Wax
6. Wax (two thin layers is always best :])

[76Celica]

Re: Should I buy a DA??

Thanks Ganesa, that seems easy to follow. Will post some pics of my first attempt next week!

[Ganesa]

Re: Should I buy a DA??

great.. cant wait to see some before and after pictures :]..

heres a chart of what product and speed you should use..

The list above is only a starting point. Ultimately which products you choose will be determined by your skill, the condition of the paint, how hard or "polishable" the paint is, and your personal preferences - especially with regard to your final wax selection.

Some other things to keep in mind when working with the G110/G220 dual action polisher:

1) Pressure – How much pressure you apply to the pad will increase the “cutting action” of the pad/liquid combination. In some cases this is needed, and in other case this could be detrimental to the surface. Generally speaking you will use more pressure when correcting defects and less when applying a wax.

2) OPM – By increasing the OPM (oscillations per minute) of the machine, you automatically increase the action of the machine. This means additional “cutting action” when using products that have defect removal capability. If you’re simply spreading a wax or pure polish, however, you should reduce the speed of the machine for this step.

3) Arm Speed – The quicker you move your arms back and forth, the less chance the product has to do it job. Slow down your arm speed to give the pad/liquid combination more time to concentrate the work over a given area. When applying a wax you can move the machine a bit more quickly, but still move the machine in purposeful movements to ensure a thorough and even application of the wax.

4) Work Area - Just as your arm speed determines how much time the pad/liquid combination can work a given area, so does the overall size of the area being worked. Shrink your work area down to no more than 2' x 2'. Don't try to work the entire hood of your vehicle at once; you'll be spreading the work over too large an area, run the risk of product drying out, and diminish the overall effectiveness of the product. The work area changes dramatically when applying wax as you can now cover all the painted surfaces at once.

5) Pad Choice – The more aggressive the pad, the more “cutting” action will take place. You must first evaluate your finish, determine your goal, and then choose the appropriate pad to do the job. Generally a W8207 Soft Buff 2.0 Polishing Pad will be used with a paint cleaner or cleaner/polish to remove defects. For applying a pure polish or wax you would select a W9207 Soft Buff 2.0 Finishing Pad.

6) Product Choice - The more severe the defect, the more aggressive the product needed to remove them. Heavy swirls in hard paint will be a big challenge for a mild cleaner/polish while a dedicated paint cleaner may make very short work of them. Determining which product is right for the job is best determined by doing a test spot first and evaluating the results. There is nothing more frustrating than just jumping in with a randomly selected product and working over the entire vehicle, only to find it wasn't effective at removing the defects. On the flip side, there is no reason to use an overly aggressive product in a situation where a mild approach would yield the same result.