swirls back after one wash

[nycstang37]

i have been detailing for awhile now, been poking around the forums, have a question. i use microfiber only on the car, and a lambswool mitt to wash. recently polished and had zero swirls under light and in teh sun. perfect black paintjob. just washed the car after a few days, first time touching the paint since detailing it, and now have swirls again. i doubt its my technique, or my supplies. is it possible i just have really soft paint? theres a spot on the door i touched the other day with my finger that has "swirls" more than the rest of teh paint which leads me to believe its that soft, keep in mind this portion of the car has been repainted and the original factory paint isnt this bad, if at all. it is an 06 mustang gt if that matters and most of teh car has been repainted with the exception of a few panels.
thanks for any input

[Tuck91]

Re: swirls back after one wash

You could have very soft paint. Are you using the two bucket method with grit guards?

[Murr1525]

Re: swirls back after one wash

Repaints can be a lot softer than original paint.

[Andrew C.]

Re: swirls back after one wash

Could you give us the details of how you wash your stang and also what products and processes you used to remove your swirls?

This will allow us to give you a more accurate answer

[the_invisible]

Re: swirls back after one wash

As Michael Stoops always emphasizes... swirls cannot be avoided completely. You can, however, reduce the severity and the amount of swirls created by taking good measures.

I am a little extreme, but here is what I do in an effort to minimize swirls:

- Two Buckets Grit Guard
- Two micro fiber wash mitts, one lower half of car, one for top
- Foam Lance to create presoak, rinse, then foam lance again for extra lubrication for mitt.

You may think that's a lot of work, but it's not. Considering that this reduces the amount of polishing I need to perform each year, it's not a lot of work.

[KC's]

Re: swirls back after one wash

could u show us some pics

what do u polish with, how was it applied?
i had quite an encounter, after finish on a black under halogen was good, esp with 80/21
but when after wash.....and under the sun, i see micro marring, very light isolated holograming....only realized i did not finish properly & once the polishing oil fades....
now i usually had a quick wipe down with either M34 or 50/50 alcohol/water

no light compare to the natural God given sun light

the best to final inspection

have fun in yr quest

[davey g-force]

Re: swirls back after one wash

nycstang37 - welcome to my world!

...Don't you just love black cars?

Seriously though, a better description of your techniques will help in diagnosing the problem.

[nycstang37]

Re: swirls back after one wash

polishing:

menzerna final polish followed by ultrafina, leaving haze free swirl free finish, followed by M21 as lsp. all work done by porter cable. gonna give 105/205 a shot once it comes in. did not do 50/50 wipe with alcohol, didnt think the menzerna has any filling properties. same thinking with the ultrafina. was with lambs wool mitt and adams car wash soap, wash top to bottm, in slow straight motions. i do not use the 2 bucket method, but i do frequently rinse the mitt with the hose figuring its the same as two buckets, or am i wrong? i use high quality microfibers, and trust me i am very obsessive about my car. it was fairly clean anyway sinse detailing it, hasnt rained and it was rinsed thouroughly before the wash, presoaked, then washed. i dry with an adams waffle waeve. im thinking maybe i should try a different mitt? and suggestions? or even the drying towel?

im at a loss here, if you look at my paint wrong it swirls. but the factory paint doesnt seem no where near as bad. i think i just have very soft paint from the body shop. is there anyway to fix this? or harden the paint? probnably a stupid question, but worth a shot i guess.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: swirls back after one wash

So part of the car has been repainted, part not. The repainted panels show a much higher propensity for swirls, and they do so very easily. Sounds as though you've got your answer right there - the repainted sections are much, much more delicate and scratch prone than the factory paint. If they are so delicate that even a single wash via the process you described is marring the finish that badly, you may well have inflicted some marring in your polishing process. What pads did you use when machine polishing the paint? Too aggressive a pad on very delicate paint will leave a less than beautiful finish. While the Menzerna products you used may not be designed to merely fill in defects, ANY product that is left behind to any degree will tend to fill, at least a little. Think about it - how do you NOT fill at least a little bit if you're physically leaving something behind? Unless, of course, said product dries 100% totally and completely as clear as glass.

Super soft or delicate paint can be extremely frustrating because it seems to scratch on command, almost like a trained dog. We recently had someone bring a black NC Mazda MX5 Miata to Meguiar's Garage and he was struggling to get a defect free finish. We determined he was working too aggressively with his pad choice, liquid choice, and machine speed. We had him slow down, change to a finishing pad and step down to M205 - the end result was a brilliant mirror black finish.

Otherwise, make darn sure your wash mitt and drying towels are completely clean - wash and dry them after every use. Having a couple of drying towels is a good idea as well. Further, after your final rinse take the nozzle off the hose, turn the water pressure down a bit, and just let a gentle and steady stream of water run over the paint. All those tight little beads may look great, but if you have to dry them all you're touching the car more than you need to, or should. This final rinse with the nozzle off will prevent splashing of the water and sheet off the extreme majority of beads from the surface. The less water on the surface, the less you have to touch the paint. The less you touch the paint, the less the chance of creating new swirls.

[CieraSL]

Re: swirls back after one wash

For the really sensitive areas, you could try the blotting method when drying. It is demonstrated in this video using a waffle weave towel. Check out the section from 1:33 - 2:08 in the video.

[sanddrag]

Re: swirls back after one wash

Some companies' waffle-weaves I find to be not soft at all. What I do is use the flow-rinse method, and then perhaps 6 or 7 standard microfiber towels to gently remove any remaining water.

[nycstang37]

Re: swirls back after one wash

may try blotting dry, but when i do it still leaves some water behind, and i find myself wiping dry anyway. i think its just soft body shop clear is my problem. as for pads on my PC i use the edge double sided pads that snap in the center into the porter cable, may change over to lake country when funds allow

[Sudz On The Run]

Re: swirls back after one wash

Okay well i have the same problems , Welcome to world of black cars they look real nice but are a real pain in the rear. I don't use any towels to dry i use leaf blower so for the life of me i cannot figure out why i get When i have a chance i will post some pics from a distance to show how nice it looks and then some up close pics. Sunday i am hitting the car as hard as i can so hopefully i can post some better pics. M105 and M205 will be the way i attack it , Hopefully it will come out a little better. The only thing i don't use is a grit guard maybe its time to get 2 of them LOL

[Markus Kleis]

Re: swirls back after one wash

polishing:

menzerna final polish followed by ultrafina, leaving haze free swirl free finish, followed by M21 as lsp. all work done by porter cable. gonna give 105/205 a shot once it comes in. did not do 50/50 wipe with alcohol, didnt think the menzerna has any filling properties. same thinking with the ultrafina. was with lambs wool mitt and adams car wash soap, wash top to bottm, in slow straight motions. i do not use the 2 bucket method, but i do frequently rinse the mitt with the hose figuring its the same as two buckets, or am i wrong? i use high quality microfibers, and trust me i am very obsessive about my car. it was fairly clean anyway sinse detailing it, hasnt rained and it was rinsed thouroughly before the wash, presoaked, then washed. i dry with an adams waffle waeve. im thinking maybe i should try a different mitt? and suggestions? or even the drying towel?

im at a loss here, if you look at my paint wrong it swirls. but the factory paint doesnt seem no where near as bad. i think i just have very soft paint from the body shop. is there anyway to fix this? or harden the paint? probnably a stupid question, but worth a shot i guess.

Well, not saying it isn't the washing technique or products, but both of those products, ESPECIALLY the Ultrafina are known for being great fillers. Ultrafina has a very durable, very clear oil to it that will fill fine cracks very well.

I would suggest doing a test spot, and then doing an alcohol wipe to see if the swirls ever were truly removed or not. Then, if you find out they were, go back to the drawing board on improving wash technique.

[Calais]

Re: swirls back after one wash

:\Sunday i am hitting the car as hard as i can so hopefully i can post some better pics. M105 and M205 will be the way i attack it , Hopefully it will come out a little better.

We hit your paint pretty hard with M105/M205, the only thing I can think of is a wool pad on the rotary (instead of the foam 2.0 pads we used). I would be weary of doing too much to your black paint, be careful. I know you that you know what you are doing, but having seen the scratches first hand and knowing how defects eat away at car-crazy perfectionists like us I just thought I should warn you not to do anything too drastic. I wish you luck, post/send me some pics when you're done!