Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

[3Fitty]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

I actually think it is a great piece of marketing but not much beyond that.

Simply put, two different market segments. No Lexus customer is going to buy a "regular" Ford. Lincoln perhaps, but certainly not a Taurus.

As for the paint... my IS350 has some of the nicest paint I've ever worked on, it is my daily driver and thus far I don't have a single rock chip, so I'm not too concerned. At the end of the day, I know Mark is a loyal Ford guy, but it will take 20 years of Ford's continued improvement to change perceptions.

The reality is, if you were to go into most urban areas, there is just no comparison as far as perception goes.

[Andrew C.]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

It does seem WAY too nice for the Taurus line in my opinion.
I think some people may actually avoid it because of the name "Taurus."

I woudn't mind owning that Ford, but again, I think they should have given it a different name, or called it the Five Hundred...

It does seem like it's too advanced for the low end economy compact car line.

I think that you have a point with the name being a possible deterent, but I think what Ford is trying to do is what Mark said right here:

Now, as history in business repeats itself, innovation is coming from the #3 guy, not the #1 or #2 guys, and Ford is being projected by Wall Street Journal and others to become the unchallenged number one automaker in North America within 2 years and beyond. I would be willing to bet my life that Ford is going to be taking over...I am in one of their upcoming products, I know what Ford is capable of when they truly try, and once the rest of the country realizes that there will be no stopping Ford.

Mark my words

It is going to take a few years, but with a quality taurus on the roads like this, it will change the view of the taurus to being a good car. It obviously won't have that connotation at first, but with a few years, that isn't going to be a name that has any sort of negative connotation just because of the way this new taurus is built.

Ford isn't making new models (well they actually are doing that too), but they are taking their older ones and making them better. The Taurus and the Fiesta are completely different now than they were in the past. (and even though the F150 isn't all too different from the previous model, it is still kicking butt) When a new model comes out people pay attention to it more so than a re-vamped model. It's a brilliant move on Ford's part, because as Mark said, in a few years, these re-vamped cars will be on top of any sort of competition they have when the competition had no idea they were rising.

[Megafast13]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

Paint? What good is a "quality" paint job if the car itself is always in the shop? I'd rather have the "poorer quality" paint job if the car runs with minimal maintenance and doesn't need transmissions, radiators, head gaskets, etc.

Incidentally, who in their right mind would drive a Lexus in those conditions when one spends that kind of money. That is a marketing exaggeration. OK, buy the Taurus as the winter car, keep the Lexus as the "show" car.

I owned a Sable and a Taurus. Both were junk, and for what I paid in repairs and cost of both vehicles, I could be driving a NEW Lexus today. Shame on me. I'll take the Lexus any day.

Ouch...Nicely said

Mark, why aren't they making this the new Five Hundred?
It does seem WAY too nice for the Taurus line in my opinion.
I think some people may actually avoid it because of the name "Taurus."

They SHO model looks nice though.

I never like when any company compares their cars to others.
Ford has been doing this for a few years, saying their quality is now as good as imports.

I know WAY more people that have broken down Ford's than imports. My Dad's 2001 Honda Civic has over 300,000 miles on it, and it still runs like new. I see dead American cars in general, not just Ford. My 2001 GMC Van is on it's last leg. But at the same time, my neighbor has a early 90's Aerostar that has 200,000+ Miles and it's still running, so I guess it just depends...

I also hear many people say, Lexus is rebranded Toyota. It's not at all. Although they share similar design concepts they are different. Lexus is higher quality. They have way more features, safety, innovation, etc. The cars are just so solid, they just feel like quality products.

I recently detailed a Mercury Sable and it felt terrible. But I also detailed a newer Ford Five Hundred and it felt great!

But at the end of the day, I am Lexus Biased and you (Mark) are Ford biased lol. So we all have our own opinions.

I woudn't mind owning that Ford, but again, I think they should have given it a different name, or called it the Five Hundred...

It does seem like it's too advanced for the low end economy compact car line.

[Andrew C.]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

If paint is more elastic, would it make it softer? It seems like a harder paint would not want to have as much flexibility?

[HealthyCivic]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

Oh come on Mike, you should have capitalized that "Focusing" lol. As far as the paint goes, I'm not gonna lie, Ford does seem to be stepping up their game lately. I'd like to see some other comparisons though. I never had the impression that Lexus was the industry leader in paint anyway.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

Let's just make sure we don't allow this "quality debate" to turn sour in this thread. Many of us are fiercely brand loyal and that can sometimes cause us to respond in a way different than we normally would.

We should all be focusing (no Ford pun intended) on the differences in paint technology and the advancement thereof. How about this - did the paint on the Ford sustain fewer chips because it's harder (resists chipping with brute force), or more elastic (resists chips by cushioning the blow and deflecting the stone)? Thoughts?

I wouldn't even go as far as calling it a debate, more of a fact-filled friendly discussion

But very good point, it has been 100% friendly so far, and let's keep it that way!

As for the paint, I doubt it was because the paint is harder, because *usually* Ford paint is quite detailer friendly (although I ran into a tough as diamond Ford F150 paint job last weekend! Ugh!), so I would say it is just tougher, thicker, and possibly more elastic. That's my guess anyway...

PS, just found some cool videos for the F150, too.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/2009f150/

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

Let's just make sure we don't allow this "quality debate" to turn sour in this thread. Many of us are fiercely brand loyal and that can sometimes cause us to respond in a way different than we normally would.

We should all be focusing (no Ford pun intended) on the differences in paint technology and the advancement thereof. How about this - did the paint on the Ford sustain fewer chips because it's harder (resists chipping with brute force), or more elastic (resists chips by cushioning the blow and deflecting the stone)? Thoughts?

[Bunky]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

I think it is an interesting comparison. If you put the two cars out all newly polished, I think the Lexus will win hands down for best paint.

My Ford product is full of orange peel and cannot ever get the crisp reflections you see in the Euro cars. It may be functional but depends on what you want. There are beauty queens and there are real work horse vehicles. I am not saying I like all that orange peel either. The funny thing (quality?) it is uneven in different sections. My car has not been trouble free but I still consider it reliable (I have owned many Chrysler products so I know).

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

Mark, I don't know, and I am not calling you a liar, but no matter who I speak to who own Fords, they have had problems at one time or another if not more often than not. I have talked to many who own everything to Explorers, Mustangs, Taurus, Focus and others. Cars just don't hold up. These are cars from 2000 to current date.

I obviously follow Ford quite closely, so I know I would fall into the "biased" category, no hiding that, but I still stand by the fact that Ford is putting out some of the best vehicles (segment considered) on the road today.

They definitely had some rough spots in the past, such as the mid 90s Taurus for example (piece of junk), but there is absolutely no denying that things have changed. In 2005 Ford had more segment leading quality leaders than any other brand in North America with 5, and ever since they have been bettering their quality year after year at a rate faster than the industry as a whole. (actual measured statistic, btw).

They are the ONLY company to do that in the entire industry.

I work for www.LeftLaneNews.com as a contributor, so I really follow auto news from all brands very closely (it's my job!) and I can say that easily hands down Ford has 3:1 more positive press than ANY other brand out there (for the past year).

In fact, there is even a website that breaks up their news by brand and Ford has something like triple the next closest brand in the world for news articles, with 9 out of 10 being positive. There is a reason their stock has almost quadrupled this year alone!

Of course, perception lags behind reality so I realize that people are going to bag on Ford and praise imports for quality reasons for a few years (5?) before they realize the change is real, and that is to be expected. When Toyota and Honda first came to the US they had some real junk...they struggled. Over time, they got their act together and started handing it to the American auto makers and eventually perception caught up to the fact that reality had changed in their favor.

When people try to give me anecdotal stories about bad Ford quality I just laugh because I have oodles of stories of about horrid import quality (friend's 2008 Accord has been to the dealer 14 times, for example), but my statistics courses tell me that neither are going to tell me anything. With a sample size less than 40 you can't even apply standard deviations, so it is basically worthless to base anything on a handful of stories. Good or bad. I also realize that my family's flawless record with Ford could be matched by another family's horrible time... so I don't lean on that as the end all, be all.

Now, as history in business repeats itself, innovation is coming from the #3 guy, not the #1 or #2 guys, and Ford is being projected by Wall Street Journal and others to become the unchallenged number one automaker in North America within 2 years and beyond. I would be willing to bet my life that Ford is going to be taking over...I am in one of their upcoming products, I know what Ford is capable of when they truly try, and once the rest of the country realizes that there will be no stopping Ford.

Mark my words

[the_invisible]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

Whether the new Ford would hold up to abuse, only time would tell. Keep in mind that a 2010 model may have superior craftsmanship and quality to the later models for promotion purposes, while the later year models may have some corrections of problems found on the previous year model.

Also, to some, brake pads replacement is an issue. While to others, a transmission overhaul is simply a maintenance. A person could go on the interweb and complain about his car being unreliable because it has gone through a set of brake pads in a year. Cars with good braking performance, Mazda3, G35, IS350 just to name a few, always have some sort of brake pads Technical Service Bulletin addressing customers complaint of "rapid brake wear". The true culprit is that the brake pads on these cars are simply too aggressive. People see that as a problem and threaten to have a class action against carmakers about it.

[Tuck91]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

If you like Chevy, you like Chevy
If you like Ford, you like Ford
If you like Dodge, you like Dodge


Find something you like and drive it often....


I picked the 2007 Silverado because it won Motor Trend Truck that year and I liked the styling of the exterior and interior and the nice Vortec engine, and I got a very good deal on it because my Uncle works for GM.

I sure would love to have a Sonic blue Ford Ranger or a Red Dodge Power Wagon, but you cannot have them all.

But at the end of the day I still like my truck and I can always try something new later on.

[SHYNEMAN123]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

I have only owned 1 Ford a 72 Torino But I would own a 2010 SHO

Very Nice Car.

[Ryan L.]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

Imagine what else they put those things threw for testing.

And as for Ford's breaking down all the time; we have a 2001 F150 with 92,000 miles thats needed nothing more than oil changes, tires and brakes.

We used it to tow a 10,000lbs trailer for 45-50,000 of those miles, which is 2,000lb more than the truck is rated to handle.

On the other hand my moms 2003 Honda Odyssey has gone through 8 sets of brakes, 4 times the rear window motor mounts have broken, 3 out of the 4 engine mounts have broken, its need all new shocks and struts twice, the doors rattle like crazy and your luckily if the cruise control work and sometimes the lights turn off randomly. It only has 70,000 miles.

Ryan

[john m.]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

Just an update on my post, just rode in a family friends Lexus LS and dang is that thing nicer than I though! I just felt so luxurious! However, in no way does this make me think the ford is bad lol but I would take that LS anyday and throw a clear bra on it

[Andrew C.]

Re: Most horrifying video ever? You decide...

Mark, I don't know, and I am not calling you a liar, but no matter who I speak to who own Fords, they have had problems at one time or another if not more often than not. I have talked to many who own everything to Explorers, Mustangs, Taurus, Focus and others. Cars just don't hold up. These are cars from 2000 to current date.

Not sure who you have been talking with but I haven't ever heard of Ford's breaking down all the time. Not sure where you are getting this from. I've had my F150 for 6 years and not had a SINGLE issue with, it, ever!



Ford and Lexus are in different price ranges and Ford is on top of the cars in its class for its price range and has many advantages on higher end cars too. To be honest, for a car in the higher end price range like Lexus, I'd rather buy a BMW rather than a toyota that just has a different name on it.