Announcement

**Maserati Mario** · Jun 23, 2009, 05:18 PM

Re: Polishing woes

Hello and welcome to MOL!
I'm thinking you moved your DA to fast across the paint while using 105 and not working it into the paint long enough.

I use 105 past when it's dry and don't have a problem.
Another thing you want to learn to do is, do a test spot so you can fiqure out how the paint is going to react and not "ruin" your whole car.

Sounds like you have the tools and some of the knowledge to get it done.
There are a lot of videos here that you can watch to get the hang of it.
So don't worry you can get what your looking for it will just take some time and there is a learning curve.
And I'm glad to see you want to do it right.
Others will chime in read everything and you will get it!

**xantonin** · Jun 23, 2009, 05:21 PM

Re: Polishing woes

Sounds like you tried to cover a larger area

It also sounds like you didn't loosen up on the M105/M205 afterwards to have it lightly polish the surface. If you're using the same pressure the whole time this could occur

**Bounty** · Jun 23, 2009, 05:34 PM

Re: Polishing woes

Originally posted by Vapour Trails View Post

Hi, I’m new to this forum and detailing. I recently bought a PC 7242 & lake country orange, white and blue pads for my 2006 Mustang GT with Vista Blue (deep dark blue) paint.

Sounds like you have the right tools to begin defect removal...

Although my car is fairly new, it had bad swirls in my opinion which were readily visible in direct sunlight. I hated it. It also had some fine scratches in random spots. I’m not sure how it swirled so quickly and badly as I hand wash using proper techniques, but I digress.

Drying...when there's no real lubrication on the paint...is a stage where a lot of marring is induced. Make sure you're using clean microfibers, drying towels, waffle weaves, etc and a blower is a good option to take the bulk of the water off without ever having to rub the paint.

On a Mustang related forum, an experienced detailed told me to use M105 and follow that with M205. He said that Ford paint was hard and aggressive applications were necessary to remove swirls.

Good advice so far...

Last night I washed the car with dish detergent and used the clay bar. I used my orange pad with M105 and followed that with my white pad and M205. In the fading light of day, it looked good. I moved the car into the garage and examined it with a bright halogen light. It appeared like the swirls where gone and I was pretty happy. This morning I took the car out to go to work. In the bright morning sun what was revealed was disappointing.

This is were the value of a test spot is evident. Do not continue on to the rest of the car until you are satisfied with the results in your test area! This saves you from going thru hours of work with disappointing results...as you now know. Tape off a section of the trunk or hood and use your M105/CCS Orange pad combo. Prime your pad and "kiss" the pad to the work area to begin distributing polish. With the machine off use the pad to evenly spread the product around the taped off portion of paint. With the PC7424 set to speed 2 or 3 make one quick pass to finish distributing polish and then proceed to speed 6 for defect removal. Use a slow and steady speed of approximately .5" to 1.0" per second with 10 to 15 lbs of pressure on the head of the unit. Make at least 6 passes over the work area...3 vertical and 3 horizontal overlapping by about 50%. When this is done perform an IPA (isopropyl alchohol) wipedown to remove any oils or product and to get an accurate picture of the results. Pull the car out in the sun and check your work. A second or even third pass of M105 may be necessary before you have reach the desired level of correction. After that, you can go over the area with the M205/CCS White to remove any induced marring from the M105 and to burnish the paint to a high gloss.

There are still swirls visible, but now I also have holograms or buffer swirl. After reading some material this morning, it appears I may have induced these holograms by failing to work the polish, especially the M105, adequately into the paint, not allowing it to properly break down. I tired to stop at the point where the polish was just on the verge of drying, just barely moist. Somewhat paradoxically, I have read the holograms make be the result of working the polish too long, at this point I am not sure.

M105/M205 use the newer SMAT technology and therefore do not need to be "broken down" like traditional DAT products. You can work it as little or as long as you like before it dries. If you find the M105 is drying or "flashing" too quickly for you...spritz water or some Final Inspection on the surface and keep working.

My question is, where do I go from here? I have not carried out a final wax yet. Should I go back and reapply M205 with a white pad, working the polish fully? I really want a spectacular finish and what I have now might be worse then when I started.

Thanks

Start with a proper test area and perform the procedure described above. Some clearcoats are beyond the limits of a ROB and a light cutting pad so you may just have to live with some level of defects if you're not going to move up in aggressivity of pad/machine/technique. Give it a shot and let us know what happens. Here's a step-by-step visual I recently completed with M205 on a customer's Toyota Corolla S so you have an idea...

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=329584#post329584

**Jeff U** · Jun 23, 2009, 05:55 PM

Re: Polishing woes

Based on your description, I'd try M105 again using a white pad. It should remove the holograms and swirls unless they are real deep scratches.

Here's what I found works for M105:

I do not prime the pad
I spray a tiny amount of water on the pad (I check the pad after each section to insure it does not feel completely dry. Spray tiny bit more water as needed)
I apply polish to the pad. Spread on surface of paint before turning on polisher.
Turn on polisher
Within seconds of beginning to polish, the M105 appears to dry out. If you stop here, the wipe off is very difficult.
Don't stop - continue polishing.
The M105 will begin to dust and almost appear to breakdown like a diminishing polish. You can work as long as you like.
There will be very little visible M105 left on the paint and wipe off is very easy.

Use lighter pressure with each additional pass. You can get a very nice finish with M105 alone.

Follow up again with M205.

**Vapour Trails** · Jun 23, 2009, 06:26 PM

Re: Polishing woes

Thanks for the replies, this was the info I was looking for.

Luckily I have not completed the entire car. Last night I did the hood, front fenders and roof only.

I do believe I moved the PC too quickly when using 105.

As far as the cause of the swirls, I do admit (painfully) that I used the brush at the coin operated manual car wash a couple times eariler in the spring. We had a very cold spring in my area and it wasn't possible to do it at home, but the car was just filthy. Never again.

**Bounty** · Jun 23, 2009, 07:54 PM

Re: Polishing woes

Originally posted by Jeff U View Post

I do not prime the pad

I spray a tiny amount of water on the pad (I check the pad after each section to insure it does not feel completely dry. Spray tiny bit more water as needed)
I apply polish to the pad. Spread on surface of paint before turning on polisher.

....back before the "KBM craze" the term priming the pad meant to prep the pad so it isn't dry with a spritz of either water or a quick detail product or pad conditioner (my preference). Priming the pad with product...ala the Kevin Brown Method...isn't something I do as I haven't found it needed with the Flex or rotary and since I use primarily PFW or CCS pads it's not very convenient.

**Vapour Trails** · Jun 24, 2009, 07:43 AM

Re: Polishing woes

Last night I re-polished the hood. I put the car in the garage and positioned my halogen lamp to reveal all the micro-scratches. Then I worked a section over with M105/orange twice, going much slower with 3 passes in each direction. My procedure was identical to Bountys work on the corolla.

When comparing that newly polished section to the rest of the hood, fine scratches were significantly reduced, but not totally gone. I finished with a pass of M205/white. I decided I was happy *enough* with the results. I finished the rest of the hood this way. I can attest to the hardness of this paint, it doesn't seem very workable.

This morning I looked at the hood in sunlight and the swirls are definately reduced. I still seem to have a bit of hologramming effect. But I'm going to reserve final judgement until I get my hands on some IPA. I feel there is residue on the hood I can't get off.

Thanks for the responses, you helped me get on the right track! But man, this is time/effort consuming work.

**03F250** · Jun 24, 2009, 08:51 AM

Re: Polishing woes

Over the past two weeks I've spent over 20 hours on my recently purchased 2006 F250 doing my first correctional detail EVER. I used M105 / 1Z Paint Polish / Collinite 476s. I used only 4" diameter pads on my UDM for maximum power, and I still had to hit some spots 4 or even 5 times with M105 to get some scratches down to acceptable levels. I chalked it up to extremely hard clear on my truck.

Will be getting some M205 and going over the truck again with it this fall before a final LSP coat for the winter.

Announcement

Polishing woes

Polishing woes

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment