Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

[ky_ace]

I just got my motorcycle parts back from the painter and he took the liberty of removing the orange peel he got, and claimed to have good, clean results that I could "put some mirror glaze on and good wax and put it on the bike". After receiving the pieces, I was a bit disappointed with the results but have been waiting for 6 months to get them back so I cut his profits out, cut my losses and brought my stuff home to finish it. My cabinet consists of M105, M205, SOLO Finish pad, SOLO Polish pad, wax applicators, Terry towels, NXT Gen 2.0 Wax, Gold Class wax, and a couple other products that are escaping my mind at the moment.

I've read on here something that was posted that said to try terry towels with 105 by hand and I tried that with no reduction of the swirl/scratches. I'm thinking it's going to require the rotary or D/A, which i've never actually used for buffing. I'm a bit nervous about burning through the clear. He said there was a "good bit" of clear on the bike (about 6 coats I think he said) before he wet sanded with 1500, and SUPPOSEDLY buffed it with something... from the looks of it maybe an SOS pad instead of a buff pad??

I'm pretty bummed but all I can do now is chuckle and try to fix it.

Here's the pics, sorry for the book... What do I do next?? fine cut Wool pad?

Thanks,

BM
Here's one uploaded to here for an idea and a link to all of them.

[10degreesbtdc]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

As a fellow motorcycle owner, though not a Harley (Yamaha Roadstar 1700) I feel for you. Having to wait six months for that quality? You must have been devastatingly ticked off. I like your attitude of "things must go on"!

I was wondering the other day why there are no hand applicator pads made from the same stuff as foam pads for machine use? Seems to me a cutting applicator pad, a polishing, a finishing, etc. would sell like hotcakes. Oops, I may have just given away my only million dollar idea? I'm guessing they're not made because it's easier to induce marring by hand and harder to get it out by hand? I think it's a good idea anyway!

Here's what I'm thinking of trying. I have some machine pads I don't use much since I bought others I like better and I might just cut them up for hand use around door handles, mirrors, etc. (tight spots on my motorcycle ).

How's that sound to you guys?

Good luck with your paint! I'm sure with the forum's help you'll have it shining like a diamond and be cruising off into the sunset soon. I'm very interested to see how much better that color will look once it's properly polished! By the way, I'm originally from up your way, so a big "hey" from an old Ky boy that drifted south. I miss the mountains.

[Bounty]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

I was wondering the other day why there are no hand applicator pads made from the same stuff as foam pads for machine use? Seems to me a cutting applicator pad, a polishing, a finishing, etc. would sell like hotcakes.

Ask and you shall receive brother....

http://www.autogeek.net/ccs-foam-hand-applicators.html

and my personal favorite...

http://www.autogeek.net/german-applicator-pad.html

Although as you know I try to stay away from hand application as much as possible when I am forced to do it these are my go-to applicators. Have several different aggressivity levels of the LC CCS applicators and two or three of the German Foam applicators. Check them out...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

My cabinet consists of M105, M205, SOLO Finish pad, SOLO Polish pad, wax applicators, Terry towels, NXT Gen 2.0 Wax, Gold Class wax, and a couple other products that are escaping my mind at the moment.

You have the right chemicals, what we need to do is help you to remove the scouring either by hand or with a rotary buffer and if we go the rotary buffer path you're going to probably want a wool cutting pad, one for the Solo line would work fine or any quality wool cutting pad.

I've read on here something that was posted that said to try terry towels with 105 by hand and I tried that with no reduction of the swirl/scratches.

I'm not sure how you applied the M105 so I'll I'm doing here is explain the process and let you check this to how you worked the M105 by hand. I've had the very good fortune of teaching hundreds of classes here at Meguiar's and I've seen a lot of people apply product by hand both the right way and the wrong way, and usually someone not doing it quite correctly just needs to tweak their technique just a little.

M105 and Ultimate Compound both are aggressive enough to remove fine sanding marks by hand with enough passion and perspiration. Usually when trying to remove the swirls and scouring shown in your first picture you're going to need to use some firm pressure and fast buffing action like this,



What you need to do is remove some paint and level or smooth out the surface and because most modern clear coat paints tend to be harder than traditional single stage paints that means that removing small paint particles by hand is going to take some effort.

Just spreading the product around like a wax won't remove enough paint to remove the swirls and sanding marks.

I'm thinking it's going to require the rotary or D/A, which I've never actually used for buffing. I'm a bit nervous about burning through the clear. He said there was a "good bit" of clear on the bike (about 6 coats I

It would be easiest to use a rotary but you'll need a good buddy to hold the components firm while you do the buffing. One mistake and your buddy could accidentally drop the component so it's best to use some kind of table with some towels on it to place the components while they're being buffed.

It's not usually a good idea to learn how to use a rotary buffer on something that's important to you as pointed out here, so if you decide to go down this path you're going to want to practice on a junker car or a hood or fender from the wrecking yard first and get a feel for the tool and how it reacts while you work it over the paint.


Maybe try the M105 by hand one more time and see if you can get any kind of good results at all. Get some blue painters tape and place a piece of tape somewhere on the gas tank and then only work on one side of the tape, this way you'll be better able to see if you're making any progress and if you are how much or how little as compared to the control side, (the side you don't work on).

You're only going to do this for a test section. Once we figure out if the paint can be fixed by hand from your testing you can remove the tape and tackle the entire tank or Plan B, we look into using a rotary buffer.

Here's what to do...
Apply about a teaspoon to a tablespoon to a an applicator pad, this can be foam, microfiber or terry cloth, terry cloth is usually the most aggressive of the 3 which will give you a little more abrading power. In some cases the fibers themselves can leave fine scratches but if this happens you just re-do the paint using a foam applicator pad and by changing your applicator material you can adjust the aggressiveness of the process and thus the results.

If you want you can make your own applicator by taking a premium quality bath towel, like a Cannon or Fieldcrest and cut out a few pieces about 4" by 6" and then fold this in half to give you a wad of terry cloth fits across the width of your 4 fingers and also gives you a little thickness to help cushion and spread out the pressure from your fingers.

(I'll take a pictures and post it this morning.)


After you get your applicator pad scienced out, take the M105 and rub a section about 6" to 8" inches squarish, (it's a round gas tank so you can figure out a way to tackle a small section), and then spread the product out over this small section and then work the product against the paint with firm pressure and a fast hand movement. You need to balance how hard you push to exert some pressure but at the same time you don't want to scar or marr the paint from your pressure, so find a balance. Do this 2-3 times to this one section.

Then after you work the product wipe off the excess and inspect your results.

The side you worked should be more clear and glossy than the control side and the goal is all swirls and sanding marks are removed. If you can see a substantial improvement then that tells you that you can fix the paint by hand. If there's no substantial improvement, then this would be a sign of 1 -4 things,

1. The paint is very hard.
2. The swirls and scratches are very deep.
3. The paint is very hard and the swirls and scratches are very deep.
4. You're skills and abilities to work a compound over paint to remove defects needs some tweaking.


Let us know which way you want to go, trying by hand or moving onto the rotary buffer and we'll do our best to help you restore the gloss and clarity to your new paint.

[ky_ace]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

Mike,

Thanks for all the tips. I"ll give the hand method a try when I get home, I read your post over in the M/C section with another member and gave it a shot that way, but I'll give another go this afternoon. I have a 93 Tempo I paid $500 bucks for that I'm planning to use as my "learning curve" before I tackle the Harley. The paint is all PPG if that matters.

BM

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

The paint is all PPG if that matters.

BM

PPG makes great paints. When it comes to working on paint the things that matter most are,

• Paint thickness
• Paint hardness or softness
• Depth of the defects you're trying to remove

Keep us posted....

[ky_ace]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

I'm hoping that I'm working with 4 mils of clear. From what he told me, he shot 4 coats and then hit it with 1500 wet and laid down 4 more coats. I think that's what he told me. and then he hit it with supposedly 1500 wet again and some sort of buffing pad and 3M somethin' buffing compound. On a side note, your marketing people should send some literature to the auto body supply shops around here. The last one I stopped in that sold Meg's product had the same stuff Orielly's had, and a catalog from 2004 to "order" from... I resulted to Fox Run Tools.com to get all my stuff. Good deals and free shipping over $100 I picked up the red and yellow wool pads today and they'll be here in a couple days

[ky_ace]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

Mike,

I really don't think you know what you are talking about. I tried 105 time after time (once) and this is the only result I was able to get (awesome) 2-3 more passes with the 105 and terry and then i'll go to a 205 and wax applicator and then be done?? hopefully. I'll wax it up in a few days.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

Mike,

I really don't think you know what you are talking about. I tried 105 time after time (once) and this is the only result I was able to get (awesome)


2-3 more passes with the 105 and terry and then i'll go to a 205 and wax applicator and then be done?? hopefully.

I'll wax it up in a few days.

Looks like you're on the way to a very nice finish. After using the terry cloth with the M105, if the paint is still hazy try the M105 with a foam applicator pad a less passion behind the pad, remember polishing paint is an art form, not merely a mechanical process.

Then move onto the M205 with a foam applicator pad and also a soft foam applicator pad for your choice of wax. M26 or NXT Tech Wax would be good choices.


Also, this might help you capture more focused pictures...

How-To capture swirls, scratches, etchings and other surface defects with your camera

[ky_ace]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

I'm finding the scratches on some other parts of the tank are much more stubborn. I might have to go tune my rotary in on the Pimpo and prepare to take action on the parts. I'm just glad I only have the two fenders, saddlebags, side covers, and the rest of the tank to go... wait.. that's a lot of elbow grease. Where can I get a backup supply of that??

[10degreesbtdc]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

Ask and you shall receive brother....

http://www.autogeek.net/ccs-foam-hand-applicators.html

and my personal favorite...

http://www.autogeek.net/german-applicator-pad.html

Although as you know I try to stay away from hand application as much as possible when I am forced to do it these are my go-to applicators. Have several different aggressivity levels of the LC CCS applicators and two or three of the German Foam applicators. Check them out...

That's what I'm talking about! I made mine from pads I had here, but when they're worn out I'm buying some of those babies.

[ky_ace]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

Alright,

I gave buffing a shot on my 1993 Ford tempo. I'm not sure if I burned through the clear or not. I do know that there are little patches of clear missing, but it came out in what I would consider chips and not actually like spot that was sanded through like I'd think it would. the paint looked really good. I didn't take the time to wash the car or clay it since I was just wanting to see what the buffer felt like. I just used some towels and water to knock the dust off. I dropped some 105 and used a polishing pad then wiped that down and used 205 with the finishing pad. I finished that up with #7 mirror glaze with a wax applicator just to see what the difference would be between it and the 205. The results were similar. I didn't work the product long enough or use a harsh enough pad or something because the swirls that were there when I started weren't gone when I finished. Since I'm dealing with parts that aren't 16 years old on my bike, i'm thinking it's going to turn out much better.

The 105 got really pasty and dry quick and was hard to wipe off. Did I let it dry out too much or not use enough product or what?? The buffer was giving me a fit because I was using a generator so i have no idea what RPM it was actually turning at. I had to set it on 4 (of 5 settings) to get it to turn at a reasonable pace.

I'm going to brave the finishing pad and 205 on the back side of a saddle bag tomorrow to see what the results are. If it goes well, I'll give the tank and rear fender a shot too.

Wish me luck!!!

Later,

BM

[Desertdawg]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

BM, when you use the rotary on your bike parts, be very careful because using it on a flat surface is easy compared to all the corners and round parts of the bike.
On the tank alone your going to be concentrating all the pressure in one small spot on the round parts so burn through will happen very fast.

Go back out to your test car and try it again on the edge's of the fenders and watch how fast it will heat up...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

The 105 got really pasty and dry quick and was hard to wipe off. Did I let it dry out too much or not use enough product or what??

The buffer was giving me a fit because I was using a generator so i have no idea what RPM it was actually turning at.

I had to set it on 4 (of 5 settings) to get it to turn at a reasonable pace.

If you're using a rotary buffer you want to stay around 1500RPM

As for problems with M105 getting pastey? Remember to always work clean, clean your buffing pad often and remove any used product residue off the paint before adding fresh product.

The 4 and 5 setting on the dial of most variable speed rotary buffers buffers is faster than 1500 RPM so it could be you're running the buffer at too high of a speed and this can cause more heat faster.

Maybe practice on the car more?

[ky_ace]

Re: Fresh Wet Sanded and "Buffed" Paint

I think I'm going to give the D/A a shot this afternoon on some other pieces that I have. If that goes well, then I'll probably give the painted parts a shot. One way I was able to buff out all the parts that I painted and powder coated black was to table mount the buffer upside down and set the trigger open. I was then able to control the pieces as I buffed them. I'm not sure I want to do that with the painted parts because they're much bigger. I really wish I could get some setup like they have at the Harley plant, but those fixtures are out of the question for me cost wise.