Whats Marring?

[Maserati Mario]

Re: Whats Marring?

So, Mario, are you saying that M105 "kinda" burns the cc?

Is this the official Meguiars position? "IF" M105 induces some level of marring and as you say marring is "kinda burning the cc", then it is safe to say the M105 "kinda burns the cc".

I don't think that is correct, but I'll leave it to the Megs pros to correct it.

I never mentioned M105
And I don't work for Meg's

[Maserati Mario]

Re: Whats Marring?

Light damage
not burring through the cc but "kinda" buring the cc

This is incorrect. Marring and burning through the clear coat are two completely different things.

[/QUOTE]

That's why I put quotes and said kinda, as in "like"/maybe.
I didn't say "Maring is burring the paint"

[3Fitty]

Re: Whats Marring?

^ Huh???

Now I'm really confused. "Kinda" = "Kind of" = "like", whereas Mike gives me the impression they are "unlike" each other, meaning they are "not kinda" like each other.

That is, I believe, the opposite of what you wrote.

[Sal329]

Re: Whats Marring?

I have been using M105 a lot lately with my PC and I have noticed it leaves just about every paint so close to LSP ready that I am sure if I just went from 105 to LSP that most people would see the car as looking perfect. I always still use a finer polish to finish up 105. Even on "soft" Honda paint I used 105 and an LC 4" Oranage pad speed 6 and when I was done the paint looked great I was very impressed.

[3Fitty]

Re: Whats Marring?

Sal,

Was that a flat LC pad or a dimpled one? Also speed setting 6 on a PC or G110? Thanks.

[CieraSL]

Re: Whats Marring?

I think the simplest definition of marring would be "anything on the paint that detracts from a true show car finish." This would then include scratches, swirls, water spots, bird doo etchings, holograms, etc., etc. To honest to God truly answer the question "What is marring" is difficult (as can be noted) because marring is a fairly subjective term and open to so much interpretation. This is why it's so important to focus on facts and actual provable results, rather than on people's opinions. Savvy?

[xantonin]

Re: Whats Marring?

I think the problem here is the definition of where the term came from.

I believe, and this may be wrong, but I think that originally these "smears" or light defects were called, as Mike mentioned, Micro-Marring because they simply didn't fall into the "deeper" categories of scratches, swirls, or burns. All of them are technically "mars", but this one was just prefixed with micro as it was the lightest.

Eventually people got lazy and just started saying their paint was marred instead of micro-marred and the rest is history.

[CieraSL]

Re: Whats Marring?

I think the problem here is the definition of where the term came from.

I believe, and this may be wrong, but I think that originally these "smears" or light defects were called, as Mike mentioned, Micro-Marring because they simply didn't fall into the "deeper" categories of scratches, swirls, or burns. All of them are technically "mars", but this one was just prefixed with micro as it was the lightest.

Eventually people got lazy and just started saying their paint was marred instead of micro-marred and the rest is history.

That's where I said that the term "marring" is fairly subjective. As you can see by reading through this thread, you get a lot of: marring is this, marring is that, I think, I don't think, I agree, I believe, etc., etc. Everybody has their own opinion of what marring is, so there is no real clear cut answer.

[Ivan Rajic]

Re: Whats Marring?

I think the problem here is the definition of where the term came from.

I believe, and this may be wrong, but I think that originally these "smears" or light defects were called, as Mike mentioned, Micro-Marring because they simply didn't fall into the "deeper" categories of scratches, swirls, or burns. All of them are technically "mars", but this one was just prefixed with micro as it was the lightest.

Eventually people got lazy and just started saying their paint was marred instead of micro-marred and the rest is history.

That and there are people like me who simply took the word marring to mean micro-marring, simply because then I don't have to say micro-swirling, micro-scratching, micro-hologram-ing haha... marring is technically THE definition for paint defects... anything and everything is included... however, with that said, we should never/rarely use that word because we, anal detailers, always know and state what kind of marring is present... so for the sake of keeping the word, marring or micro-marring became very light, haze-like defects that weren't classified otherwise... for example, when you use an aggressive clay bar and it leaves "marring", the only other thing you can say is that it left haze... if you do that though, haze takes on a new meaning because usually haze is caused over a longer period of time with improper washing/drying and/or oxidation, etc., not a quick rub of a clay bar...

This really isn't worth the discussion until we all decide to put together a "detailing dictionary" (which I've sort of started)... the only thing to gain from this thread is that marring isn't/shouldn't be associated with burning paint

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Whats Marring?

That's why I put quotes and said kinda, as in "like"/maybe.

I didn't say "Maring is burring the paint"

Here's a lesson I learned a long time ago from typing on forums and that is, words are important and words mean specific things.

The forum world includes a lot of very smart people that will read what you write and then dissect it and challenge it if it's not written correctly or carefully.


This is a friendly tip...
If you're going to take the time to post your opinion on a matter, then it's a real good idea to take a little time to think out your reply carefully and choose words that best convey your thoughts accurately. Re-read what you write a couple of times even reading it aloud and make sure it says what you want in a way that won't lead to any confusion.

I'm held accountable for what I post to this forum, and I'm held accountable for what our members post to this forum so please take a little time to proof-read what you write before clicking on the Submit Reply button.

Thank you...




p.s.

Marring has two letter R's in it, not one.


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[ShinyChevy]

Re: Whats Marring?

Thanks for the tip on the spell checker, Mike! It will be a big help to peepul like me hoo don't spel verry gud!

[xantonin]

Re: Whats Marring?

Me? Making spelling mistakes? That's umpossible!

[AnthonyCorbo]

Re: Whats Marring?

Did you read the hundreds, if not thousands of threads where a guy used a PC with M105 and there was no marring? Share the link so we can all read it because besides M105 another HUGE factor is the type of pad that is used, the speed setting and the technique. Don't let one person's mistake keep you from using a super product.

In the context of machine buffing automotive paints using a Dual Action Polisher, marring is a term used to describe the scratch pattern instilled into the paint by a combination the type of pad used, (for example a cutting pad), type of abrasive product used, the oscillating action in and of itself, and technique, which can include downward pressure, buffing time, speed setting, pad angle, etc.

Besides all of that, paints are different. There are about a dozen automotive paint manufactures in the world and each one makes their own types of paints and some paints buff really well and some paints buff horrible.

Also the hardness and softness of a paint will be a huge factor as to whether any specific paint will be prone to marring or not.

For all of the above reasons, this is why on this forum we started the idea of teaching people to do a TEST SPOT and dial-in their process and prove it works to themselves to a small area before going over the entire car.

This is also why we've been about the only company that doesn't recommend using a cutting pad on a DA Polisher and that's because all too often the aggressive nature of most foam cutting pads will induce marring or scratches into the paint.

Here's thread from our Hot Topics forum from 3 years ago that shows marring caused by a popular orange foam cutting pad used on a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher.



Please also not how the marring in the paint the above picture was taken from was removed by simply switching to a less aggressive foam pad.





Correct. Marring, or Micro-Marring could be considered light damage.



This is incorrect. Marring and burning through the clear coat are two completely different things.

heres the sentence:

I first tried the 105 with a PC and an orange pad, but it wasn’t getting rid of the deep defects, and it was horribly marring the finish.

and heres the link:

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33433

And thanks for the clarification

[AnthonyCorbo]

Re: Whats Marring?

Thanks to all for helping me understand marring, although it seems i wasnt the only confused one

Still Learning Everyday

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Whats Marring?

heres the sentence:

and heres the link:

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33433

And thanks for the clarification

Here's the actual quote with the right attributes to the OP

After a few different trials, I found out that I would need to use Megs 105 and a wool pad on the rotary.

Note the bolded portion above, TSC17 is testing different product and pad combination to dial in in process that produced the best results.

I first tried the 105 with a PC and an orange pad, but it wasn’t getting rid of the deep defects, and it was horribly marring the finish.

The above is part of the testing process or doing a series of Test Spots to find out what works and what doesn't.

As for the marring he was getting from his PAD and the product, Meguiar's doesn't recommend using cutting pads with DA Polishers because the aggressive nature of the foam together with the oscillating action, (it's both factors, not just one), has a tendency to scratch the paint and we call this micro-marring or tick marks or haze. Choose the terminology you like best.

---

In the context of machine buffing automotive paints using a Dual Action Polisher, marring is a term used to describe the scratch pattern instilled into the paint by a combination the type of pad used, (for example a cutting pad), type of abrasive product used, the oscillating action in and of itself, and technique, which can include downward pressure, buffing time, speed setting, pad angle, etc.

Besides all of that, paints are different. There are about a dozen automotive paint manufactures in the world and each one makes their own types of paints and some paints buff really well and some paints buff horrible.

Also the hardness and softness of a paint will be a huge factor as to whether any specific paint will be prone to marring or not.

For all of the above reasons, this is why on this forum we started the idea of teaching people to do a TEST SPOT and dial-in their process and prove it works to themselves to a small area before going over the entire car.

This is also why we've been about the only company that doesn't recommend using a cutting pad on a DA Polisher and that's because all too often the aggressive nature of most foam cutting pads will induce marring or scratches into the paint.

Here's thread from our Hot Topics forum from 3 years ago that shows marring caused by a popular orange foam cutting pad used on a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher.


Quote:

Cutting Pads with the PC - Is this a good idea? Once in a while people come to MOL asking questions about using foam cutting pads on the dual action polisher, (G100/PC). Here at Meguiar's our current policy is to not recommend, nor sell people cutting pads to use to apply products with the dual action polisher because while they may remove scratches, they tend to scour and haze the paint and most people don't have the skill or expertise to recover from this when it happens. Below is a picture of the hood on GTBrad's black Mustang. - In the upper left hand corner you can see swirls in the paint that were there when Brad bought the car. - In the upper right hand side is how the hood looked after he tried using another company's cutting pad on the dual action polisher. Note how scoured the paint looks. - In the bottom half of the hood, we removed both the swirls and the scouring using Meguiar's products and only our W-8006 polishing pad and our W-9006 finishing pad. The point is, using the correct technique, you don't have to resort to a foam cutting pad and risk scouring your car's paint to remove below surface defects and restore a show car shine! The hazy look in the RIGHT HAND CORNER is Marring, or Micro-Marring.

Please also note how the marring in the paint the above picture was taken from was removed by simply switching to a less aggressive foam pad.

---

On the rotary with wool however, it was achieving a greater rate of correction, and finishing up much nicer.

And as the OP states, switching the machine, or more specifically the action of the machine he's back to producing great results.


Hope this helps clarify anything that's not clarified?