Announcement

**Murr1525** · Mar 4, 2009, 11:49 PM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Yeah, pictures would be great.

Solution #1. Go back and complain to the shop and have the job done right.

Solution #2. Are you only able to work by hand so far? Bad holograming would likely need a buffer to remove to remove them well. Have to work some more on finding links for you....

**Markus Kleis** · Mar 5, 2009, 12:01 AM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

You can start working on it right now. The longer you wait, the more the paint will cure and harden (although it might be as hard as it will get already).

The only thing you need to wait to do is apply any sort of sealant (wax etc). That is usually 30-60 days, and varies by paint (they should have told you this).

I suggest getting a bottle of ScratchX 2.0 and SwirlX and starting with a test spot using the least aggressive method (SwirlX). Then adjust your game plan accordingly.

Also, be sure to check your test spot in the sun!

**akimel** · Mar 5, 2009, 07:52 AM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

I have not had good experiences with body shops. I wonder if most even know what buffer holograms or how to properly remove them.

I wonder what kind of "wax" or gloss enhancer they would have put on your paint. As Mark has noted, most re-paints require a cure time of anywhere from 30 to 90 days. You need to ask them about this.

I was just reading a thread over at Autopia on the subject of polishing a newly painted surface. All agreed that one should begin with the least aggressive polish one can get. Perhaps M205 or M82?

**Larry A** · Mar 5, 2009, 08:16 AM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Like Mark said get some Swirl X. Follow the directions on the bottle. Do a little bit every day. To try and do the car all at once is a big job. Follow with NXT2 in a couple weeks. If Swirl X wont do it get some Ultimate Compound first then use the Swirl X. Most body shops are very poor when it comes with buffing.

**Megafast13** · Mar 5, 2009, 09:01 AM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Do a TEST SPOT using SwirlX. If the holograms are gone, do the entire car using this method. If not use Ultimate Compound.

But, I would personally go back to the body shop and complain, but I wouldn't let them work on it again because they obviously do not know what they are doing

**Mike Phillips** · Mar 5, 2009, 11:52 AM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Originally posted by strat View Post

My question is what should I do to fix these swirls and how much longer should I wait for the paint to cure before I start on it? Do I have to first remove the wax that's on it?

I'll wash the car tomorrow and take some pictures. I've been looking at ScratchX and Swirl Remover but I'm concerned that these would be too harsh for a new paint job.

thanks in advance.

First, what you experienced is the norm for body shops, they don't invest much time or training, let alone the proper tools, pads and products to put out swirl-free finishes.

Second, you can't really take it back because they proved they couldn't do it right the first time so unless they change EVERYTHING they normally do they won't be able to fix it the second time and in fact all they'll do is remove more of the precious clear paint you just paid them to spray onto the car and still leave it filled with swirls.

Lastly, if you want it to look GREAT then you're going to want to invest in a DA Polisher and completely re-polish each square inch of the paint using a polishing pad on a DA Polisher with a product like our M205.

Hopefully the swirls are not too deep and M205 will remove them because it's actually a pretty light cleaner/polish.

If you want to do this all by hand then you can do this too.

How old is the paint?
Do you want to work by machine or hand?

Let us know and we'll help you dial in a specific process to undo the damage.

**Mike Phillips** · Mar 5, 2009, 11:59 AM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Please read this thread so you understand what's going to have to take place.... (It will probably make you mad)

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything... - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7228

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything... (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7228) We get a lot of questions on our forum and at our Saturday classes from people trying to remove scratches out of all kinds of things, for example: How do you remove a scratch out of; * Glass? * Clear

Then read this all the way through... even though the swirls in the car in this thread are in a brand new car, the same principals apply to a new paint job.

Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

Seriously, the best way to undo this damage is to purchase a DA Polisher and then learn how to use it because clear coat paints are a little tricky to work on usually due to their hardness.

Kind of depends upon how you feel about this car. Is this your daily driver, grocery getter?

Or something special to you? A toy or project car?

San Francisco is a long drive to Irvine but we've had people drive in from father places for our Saturday classes where will show you specifically how to remove swirls by hand or with a DA Polisher.

Saturday Classes for 2009
All Saturday Classes are Open Classes, any Registered Member can attend by signing up for a class by replying to the sign-up thread.

2009 Saturday Class Schedule

The car below was oxidized and swirled-out...

Pictures and Comments from our Saturday February 21st Class
Another fun day at Meguiar's Garage!

Before

Getting Meguiarized!

After

Click here to read more or add your comments...

Something to think about...

**Mike Phillips** · Mar 5, 2009, 12:01 PM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

On March 19th, we're going to do to this 1954 Oldsmobile what you need to do to your car. It has scratches and buffer swirls in a new paint job. (Painted in 2000)

Thursday Night "Open Classes" for 2009
2009 Thursday Night "Open Garage" Schedule

March
March 19th - First Thursday Night "Open Garage" - Click here to sign-up
(Daylight Savings Time kicks in on March 14th)

This first class will also be an extreme makeover class as we remove the swirls and
create a show car finish on this 1954 Oldsmobile Rocket 88 Convertible.

**strat** · Mar 5, 2009, 03:28 PM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Thanks guys for all the references. As I mentioned the paint is brand new and here are some photos:

Swirls and light scratches on hood:

Hollow spots filled with white material on door:

Some paint defect they tried to fix:

Orange peel:

Trunk:

Yes, the car is important to me, I just don't want to make it any worse.
So 1) I don't have to remove any of the wax present on it and 2) Using ScratchX won't etch too much of the paint?

thanks again

**Mike Phillips** · Mar 5, 2009, 04:41 PM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

This picture looks like a small oval section of the clear has been removed or burned-through exposing the color coat.

If the area inside the oval defect flat or dull looking as compared to the clear paint surrounding the oval defect?

If you rub a paint cleaner over the area do you see black paint coming off onto your cloth?

Maybe I'm jut seeing something?

Let's hope that's not exposed black paint.

**Mike Phillips** · Mar 5, 2009, 04:51 PM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Originally posted by strat View Post

Yes, the car is important to me, I just don't want to make it any worse.
So

1) I don't have to remove any of the wax present on it and

Applying any product with enough ability to remove swirls will also remove wax. If this is a brand new paint job it's not supposed to have any wax or paint sealant on it yet.

See this thread,

Paint Needs to Breathe

Originally posted by strat View Post

2) Using ScratchX won't etch too much of the paint?

Depend upon which ScratchX you're referring to, the new version or the old version as the new version has the potential to remove more paint it just depends upon how aggressively you work it.

Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

Since we introduced these 3 new swirl and scratch removers in our Consumer Line and our new M205 Ultra Finishing Polish in our Professional line, many people have asked how aggressive these new products are as compared to some of our existing products that our forum members are already familiar with to help them understand the cleaning and/or abrading ability of these new products I've listed them in order of most aggressive to least aggressive reading from left to right.

(Apologies ahead of time if you have to horizontal scroll)

Most aggressive to least aggressive -->

That would be from most to least aggressive,

M105 Ultra Cut Compound
Ultimate Compound
ScratchX 2.0
SwirlX
M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish
M205 Ultra Finishing Polish - M80 Speed Glaze (Different types of abrasives but close in cut ability)
ScratchX (Current Version being discontinued)

Originally posted by strat View Post

Thanks guys for all the references. As I mentioned the paint is brand new and here are some photos:

Orange peel:

The only practical way to remove orange peel, especially really bad orange peel is to sand the paint flat so the orange peel effect is no longer visible and then remove your sanding marks usually with a rotary buffer.

**DarkBlue** · May 31, 2009, 02:31 AM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Hi

Which is more abrasive ScratchX or Deep Crystal Step 1 - Cleaner ?

**Superior Shine** · May 31, 2009, 09:56 AM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Originally posted by Mike Phillips View Post

First, what you experienced is the norm for body shops, they don't invest much time or training, let alone the proper tools, pads and products to put out swirl-free finishes.

Second, you can't really take it back because they proved they couldn't do it right the first time so unless they change EVERYTHING they normally do they won't be able to fix it the second time and in fact all they'll do is remove more of the precious clear paint you just paid them to spray onto the car and still leave it filled with swirls.

Lets be fair. Insurance companies aren't paying (and if so very little) for colorsanding and polishing cars. They never pay for detailing.

**ClearlyCoated** · May 31, 2009, 10:12 AM

Re: Remove buffer swirls from new paint

Originally posted by Superior Shine View Post

Lets be fair. Insurance companies aren't paying (and if so very little) for colorsanding and polishing cars. They never pay for detailing.

Actually...

For me they did. A body shop made short work of my finish when the service manager failed to communicate to the lot jockey that I did not want my car washed following a rear bumper cover replacement. I arrived to find the lot guy furiously rubbing down my car with a dirty chamois. The lot guy explained that he had given my car a dry wash (ran a wet rag over the finish to remove the dust accumulated from being in the body shop for three days, then "polished" it with the chamois). Huge ugly swirls and scratches. Since this was before I became involved with MOL I thought my paint was permanently damaged.

It was then I found MOL and received some excellent advice from Rick McDonough on what steps I should take to correct the paint. Since I lacked the experience, skills, amd equipment to perform the correction myself, I was instead referred to a Meguiars detailer in my area. On a hunch I decided to see if my insurance (AAA) would cover the correction via a claim. The claims adjuster went out to my detailer who performed a spot correction on my hood to show the difference. The adjuster was impressed and immediately approved my liabilty claim, and I managed to recover my deductible from the body shop which I think my insurer saw as an admission of liability on their part.

The best part was I discovered my inner car guy and a new passion for detailing. The worst part is that this is one incredibly expensive hobby. I have probably spent 3 times what my initial paint correction cost back in February!