Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

[river]

Mike, just curious why Meguiar's has decided to move from diminishing abrasives in #9 and ScratchX to the new micro abrasives.

Thanks,
Jim

[Mike Pennington]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

In a nutshell...

This new technology we use was the best choice for the results we were looking for

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

Actually there's no move away from diminishing abrasives we still offer many of the products generations of people have been using and will continue to use. We have introduced new abrasive technology to our line in addition to our diminishing abrasive products.

This new abrasive technology is still relatively new in comparison to our history and was introduced as our normal practice of introducing new technology when it becomes available after testing and perfecting.

[gb387]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

10 years down the road it will be Nano abrasives... How long have the diminishing abrasives been on the market?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

How long have the diminishing abrasives been on the market?

Meguiar's introduced diminishing abrasives in their very first product in 1901

From the Blast to the Past forum,

MBF-1 Mirror Bright Furniture and Woodwork Cleaner

[Tuck91]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

wow, diminshing abrasives have been around for a long time

[river]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

Actually there's no move away from diminishing abrasives we still offer many of the products generations of people have been using and will continue to use. We have introduced new abrasive technology to our line in addition to our diminishing abrasive products.

This new abrasive technology is still relatively new in comparison to our history and was introduced as our normal practice of introducing new technology when it becomes available after testing and perfecting.

Oh, thought they were all gone. Which products still have them?

Also on another note, I can't find 105 anywhere in stores around here. Where is the best place to get it?

Jim

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

Oh, thought they were all gone. Which products still have them?

You want a list of ALL products we make with diminishing abrasives or just Consumer Paint Care products?

What are you working on?
What are you trying to accomplish?

Also on another note, I can't find 105 anywhere in stores around here. Where is the best place to get it?

Jim

What kind of "stores" are you looking in?

Meguiar's is a supplier to body shops and M105 is primarily a body shop product used to remove sanding marks out of fresh paint thus its distributed through what are called PBE stores, not Hard Parts stores like Autozone, Pep Boys, Kragen, etc.

PBE stands for Paint, Body & Equipment, it's a type of store that caters to the local body shops in your hometown as well as dealerships and detail shops.

Are you looking in PBE stores or Hard Parts stores?

Maybe this will help,

How to locate Meguiar's Professional and Detailer products in your hometown

[Beginner2002]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

Actually there's no move away from diminishing abrasives we still offer many of the products generations of people have been using and will continue to use. We have introduced new abrasive technology to our line in addition to our diminishing abrasive products.

This new abrasive technology is still relatively new in comparison to our history and was introduced as our normal practice of introducing new technology when it becomes available after testing and perfecting.

Are new products using Nanotechnology?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

Are new products using Nanotechnology?

Not that I'm aware of. Thee is a retail consumer wax on the market that claims to use Nano-Technology, might want to check them out and see how they define what nano means as it relates to a car detailing product.

It's more often than not used more as a buzz word than anything else but always check with any manufacture making claims as they should be able to provide the most accurate information about their products.

[02zx9r]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

MBF-1 Mirror Bright Furniture and Woodwork Cleaner

I love how it says to not purchase this unless you follow directions. CYA thing I am sure but i like it none the less.

[river]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

I'm still working on the black ST1300 Honda, Mike.

I only knew of the #9 and ScratchX having the diminishing abrasives. I guess I just need to know one very fine one like ScratchX.

OK, I have a theory about why you went with the micros.

The diminishing abrasives may be hard to control, so they might not always break down every particle the same. So if there are big ones left they can make a scratch.

The micro abrasives won't do this because they stay one size.

Today, ScratchX and foam pad by hand, and #7 on cheescloth (local body shop recommendation) did not get the swirls out. OK, ScratchX with the PC tomorrow.

Mike, how many times could you use a PC with ScratchX before getting through the clear?

Jim

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

OK, I have a theory about why you went with the micros.

The diminishing abrasives may be hard to control, so they might not always break down every particle the same. So if there are big ones left they can make a scratch.

The micro abrasives won't do this because they stay one size.

Well there's definitely some truth behind this in that whenever you use a product with diminishing abrasives you need to fully work the product until the diminishing abrasives are completely broken down so that you leave the nicest looking finish. If a person stops working the product before all the diminishing abrasives have broken down then yes, swirls could be left behind.

With our new Super Micro Abrasive Technology, because the abrasives don't break down you can stop anywhere in the buffing cycle without any negative results. In this way it's a little more "Bubba-Proof".

Today, ScratchX and foam pad by hand, and #7 on cheesecloth (local body shop recommendation) did not get the swirls out. OK, ScratchX with the PC tomorrow.

Using ScratchX 1.0 by hand to remove scratches out of a clear coat is very technique dependent, just read though this forum long enough and you'll find hundreds of threads where the jist of the thread is explaining with a keyboard how to move your hand to work the ScratchX.

As for the M07 with Cheesecloth, that's definitely an old school body shop technique...

It's also more likely to instill scratches due to the cheesecloth. We had a guy bring down a black Porsche who took that same recommendation from his body shop only he used ScratchX and proceeded to instill his car's paint with swirls and scratches.

He blamed the product not the cheesecloth. Luckily he lived close to Meguiar's and brought the Porsche to our garage and we showed him first how to remove the scratches he instilled using ScratchX with a foam applicator pad and to throw the cheesecloth away. ::

Mike, how many times could you use a PC with ScratchX before getting through the clear?

Jim

This question comes up a lot, in fact I've just tagged on thread where I've typed out the answer with Removing-Too-Much-Paint just so I can find the answer every time the questions comes up.


From this thread,

ScratchX 2.0 - Removing Too Much Paint?

Removing too much paint for most people is the least of their worries.

If you were to read enough of this forum you'll see a reoccurring theme which shows itself as frustration. That is people that are frustrated because they have swirls and scratches in their car's paint and frustrated because they can't get them out, at least they can't get them out easily.

Removing swirls and scratches means removing a little paint.

So when people are frustrated because they can't get the swirls and scratches out, another way of saying this is people are frustrated because they can't remove enough paint.

Thus my comment, for most people, removing too much paint is the least of their worries.

See if you can remove any swirls and scratches first, or in other words, see if you can remove any paint at all.

Make sense?

The nutshell answer is your paint tends to be hard and thus it's hard to remove small particles of it so no, you with your hand are not going to remove enough paint for it to be a concern.

[river]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

Thanks Mike. Well, here's what I did. Working just the saddlebag on the ST1300, I worked in ScratchX with a foam pad by hand, staying in one direction, a long direction I never did before, in straight lines. The next morning, the old scratches were gone, but there were scads of new ones in the direction I used. I was removing the old scratches and putting those new ones in somehow. I used some serious pressure. I worked the ScratchX until it just disappeared, and did it 3 or 4 times.

I wonder if the dried ScratchX put the scratches in?

Yesterday (always at dusk), I did the ScratchX on 1/2 that area, 7 + cheesecloth on the other. This time, I worked it hard at first, then used less and less pressure. I got real gentle towards the end. Working many directions. Next day in the sun, there were big scratches in the new direction, plus lots of more shallow scratches in all directions. Since I think I took all this out the day before going in the one new direction, these must be new. I live in the desert, and the bike gets covered with dust soon after waching, I have wondered if that's my problem, dust while working it. But I do the 2-bucket/wool mit/Mequiar's Gold wash/microfiber dry (with good microfibers) immediately before any of these experiments.

So I am going to try my DA PC with ScratchX next. Hope I have some paint left...

Thanks for the link to removing too much paint, I won't worry about that.

Jim

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why the move away from diminishing abrasives?

You usually never want to rub a product against paint until it's gone you've lost lubrication and thus friction increases.

Re-clean the area with a clean, soft foam applicator pad, use the product wet and rub at an angle against the scratches, not with them or if you're having more problems you won't be able to troubles shoot the problem.

If you can work by machine you'll likely get better results as rubbing out clear coat paints is genuinely an art form and can take a little practice to perfect especially on black and dark colored finishes.