Announcement

**eyezack87** · Jan 17, 2009, 09:49 PM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

I can confirm it for myself. The only way I can get rid of wetsanding marks with my PC is with a 4in LC pad. It does help quite a bit in hard to reach areas thats for sure

**SHYNEMAN123** · Jan 17, 2009, 10:06 PM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

Or you could switch to a 3 " rotary

**Carfire** · Jan 17, 2009, 10:14 PM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

You can not remove wet sanding marks with a DA.
This is Part 3 out of a 5 part series on Wet Sanding.
About 6 min and 20 seconds it talks about Wet Sanding and DA.
I can not count how many times this comes up here.
Everytime I try to respond with the same answer.

**pampos** · Jan 17, 2009, 11:55 PM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

Originally posted by Carfire View Post

You can not remove wet sanding marks with a DA.
This is Part 3 out of a 5 part series on Wet Sanding.
About 6 min and 20 seconds it talks about Wet Sanding and DA.
I can not count how many times this comes up here.
Everytime I try to respond with the same answer.

I am not sure for that i am going to say but it is also depends how soft is the paint and what sand paper did you use....Not sure if you can remove them by a DA but i confirm that it is extremely difficult to do it....I had difficulties to remove them by a rotary,so i guess it is very very hard to do it with DA...I have done it once with DA on a 3,5'' wool pad and heavy compound but it was an extremely soft Honda paint and it was just a small scratch that i wetsanded....
May not impossible but extremely hard yes.....

**02zx9r** · Jan 18, 2009, 08:40 AM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

Well I appreciate the responses. ffice

ffice" />

I am still new to all of this and still learning. I am not planning on wet sanding or anything like that as I have not been formerly trained on that but I guess I may need to look into that I guess.

When I asked if the smaller pads were needed for a PC I guess I just meant for the enthusiast or hobbyist just trying to maintain their personal vehicles and family member’s vehicles to keep them as good looking as possible. The worst so far is my g/f's explorer, but I am hoping that the 5.5" pad will do something worthwhile on the scratches, although I know will take much longer I’m sure, but seeing as this is just a hobby I guess I can afford to take the longer time.

Thanks again

**RaskyR1** · Jan 18, 2009, 10:00 AM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

I've never had any issues trying to remove defects with a 6.5" or even my 7" 2.0 pads, but a DA does have it's limitations, and at some point it's better to step up to a rotary.

Meguiar's also does not recommend the use of cutting pads with the PC/G110.

Rasky

**02zx9r** · Jan 19, 2009, 06:31 AM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

Appreciate it, although at this point i dont forsee myself stepping up to a rotary. At least not for a few years, and even then I doubt I will but you never know how the bug may affect me so.....

**akimel** · Jan 19, 2009, 07:16 AM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

This question recently came up on another forum, where some of the brethren simply insist that a D/A and 7" pads cannot correct paint. I confess that I am dumbfounded by this claim, since it is clear from the testimonies of so many MOL members that one can remove swirls and scratches with a 7" pads, at least on many paint systems. And with the release of Ultimate Compound and the reformulated M105 surely this ability has increased. 4" pads may be significantly more effective at paint correction than 7" pads, but one can correct many kinds of defects with the latter. Heck, even I, despite all of my inexperience and incompetence, have seen swirls disappear under my G110 and a W8207 polishing pad.

Mark Twain was once asked if he believed in the baptism of infants. "Believe in it, Madam? I've seen it!"

But should one consider adding 4" pads to one's collection, and if so, what kind of pads should one get and where does one get them and the requisite backing plate?

Cheers,
Al

**RaskyR1** · Jan 19, 2009, 07:53 AM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

I bought some 4" pads a few months back, only for use on cars with hard to reach areas. I still haven't had a car to use them on yet though.

As long as the pad is spinning it will be able to remove defects.

Crazy how a smaller pad is less effective on a rotary, but more effective on a DA....I wonder how it is on a polisher like the FLEX 3401???

**Mike Phillips** · Jan 19, 2009, 09:28 AM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

Originally posted by RaskyR1 View Post

I've never had any issues trying to remove defects with a 6.5" or even my 7" 2.0 pads, but a DA does have it's limitations, and at some point it's better to step up to a rotary.

Usually the above is the case, that is if the entire car is so bad that our W-8006 or W-8207 pads using the right product and good technique isn't working to remove the defects fast enough or effectively enough then it's likely the paint has been neglected long enough that a rotary buffer would be a better choice.

If a person doesn't know how to use a rotary buffer then yes, putting a smaller diameter pad on a DA Polisher will mean less total surface area on the surface of the paint for the clutch-enabled tool to rotate and thus it will rotate better and that means more paint will be removed faster.

At this time Meguiar's doesn't offer smaller pads than our 6.5" pads so if you want to use smaller pads then you'll have to look outside our product line offering.

Note to do a test spot with any smaller pads you try and make sure your pad and product combo are giving you the results you're looking for in a small area before going over the entire car. Sometimes smaller pads will tend to haze some paint systems more than others, so test first.

Originally posted by RaskyR1 View Post

Meguiar's also does not recommend the use of cutting pads with the PC/G110.

The problem with using cutting pads with a DA Polisher is on some paint systems they more aggressive foam will haze the paint. This isn't a problem for a seasoned detailer with an arsenal of other pads and products to figure out a way to recover from the hazing but for Newbies to machine polishing it can be a problem because they usually don't understand what the problem is and they don't know what to do to undo the damage and in most cases they get a little panicky or frustrated especially if the car they hazed is important to them, like in they paid a lot of money for it or it's their "Toy".

We invest a lot of time on this forum teaching people to test out the combination of pads and chemicals they're thinking of going over the entire car with to first test them out to a small section and make sure they're getting the results they want just in case they're not getting the results they want at least they didn't go over the entire car.

The thing a lot of people don't understand is clear coats aren't always the easiest thing to work and make look good and paint systems vary, what works great on one paint system might not work great on a different paint system, (a different car).

So it's important to always test first and dial-in a recipe that works to a small are and once that's figured out duplicate the process over the entire car.

Originally posted by 02zx9r View Post

Appreciate it, although at this point i dont foresee myself stepping up to a rotary. At least not for a few years, and even then I doubt I will but you never know how the bug may affect me so.....

Nothing wrong with not getting into rotary buffers, just try to understand the limits of what a tool with a clutch can do. The trend over the past 4-5 years has been people pushing the limits of what a DA Polisher can do and nothing wrong this but a DA Polisher is not a Rotary Buffer and there's a huge difference between these two tools and what they are capable of and what they are not capable of.

Even if you can remove sanding marks with a DA Polisher that doesn't mean that it's the best tool for the job and it's really not a good idea to sand down an ENTIRE car thinking you're going to remove ALL the sanding marks using a tool that if you press too hard onto the head of the tool the pad will stop rotating and thus paint is not remove, thus sanding marks are not removed.

This is especially true of factory paint as it's much much harder than fresh paint.

Just to note, most wet-sanding is done on fresh paint, not factory hard, factory baked-on THIN paint. This part of the equation is usually left out on other forums and so people reading discussions about wet-sanding sometimes get the wrong idea and this can get them into trouble real fast.

Originally posted by akimel View Post

This question recently came up on another forum, where some of the brethren simply insist that a D/A and 7" pads cannot correct paint.

Skill level and experience, or at least some good instruction is a huge factor when it comes to getting good results with any tool. One thing for sure, when we do our demos at our Saturday classes we remove defects using our G110 our our 7" pads and we usually do it in front of 40 to 60 eyeballs weekend after weekend. Pretty good test of the tool, pads and products when you have no idea what car you're going to work on, this means you have no ideas about how good or not good the paint system you're going to demo on works but your results over the last 6 years of holding classes is consistently successful. (In front of 40 to 60 eyeballs, that's 20 to 30 people)

Open Class - March 8th, 2008 - Pictures & Comments

Originally posted by akimel View Post

But should one consider adding 4" pads to one's collection, and if so, what kind of pads should one get and where does one get them and the requisite backing plate?

Cheers,
Al

There's a number of online vendors that offer smaller pads and backing plates for DA Polishers, just be sure to test any pad and product combo first to make sure you're getting the results you want before going over the entire car.

Originally posted by RaskyR1 View Post

I bought some 4" pads a few months back, only for use on cars with hard to reach areas. I still haven't had a car to use them on yet though.

As long as the pad is spinning it will be able to remove defects.

And that's key with a DA Polisher, when removing defects you're removing paint and paint is removed best when the pad is rotating against the surface, not merely vibrating against it.

If you take a permanent marker and place a line or two on the back of your buffing pads and/or backing plates it makes it easier to see when the pad is rotating or just vibrating and this helps you to correct your technique to get the pad rotating.

See the tips and techniques outlined here,

Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher
(These are all similar tools)

**RaskyR1** · Jan 19, 2009, 09:34 AM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

Thanks Mike! I was hoping you woud reply to this thread.

So if the DA didn't have the clutching mechanism, like the FLEX 3401, then the larger pads would be more effective right?

Rasky

**02zx9r** · Jan 19, 2009, 09:44 AM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

Thanks Mike and all those who have responded.

I kind of assumed that if the bigger pads were not worthwhile then they would not still be sold. Good to know that meg's does not sell smaller pads, so apparently the bigger pads will do the job with the trade off potentially being longer time to do the vehicle, more passes using same product, or different product, longer working times etc...

At this time, I am going to just stick with what I have for now and learn with that and go from there. I dont have a detailing business nor do I plan on starting one, so taking more time is not a problem for me.

I have read through the link you provided and many many more that are on here. Thanks for having a well laid out, easy to learn from forum that isn't overwhelming for a beginner.

**Mike Phillips** · Jan 19, 2009, 10:32 AM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

Originally posted by 02zx9r View Post

I kind of assumed that if the bigger pads were not worthwhile then they would not still be sold.

Just to note, our G110 and G220 have more power than the PC aka Porter Cable unit and this helps to keep our pads rotating better. When pads become wet with whatever product you're using, the result is the wet foam tends to act like a sponge and soak up the power coming out of any DA Polisher. This is pretty easy to prove to yourself, simply buff for a while with a pad and pay attention to how well it rotates when you first start out and then as you move around the car notice how it's harder to keep the pad rotating under pressure.

What changed?

Now put on a dry pad just like the one you were using and see what happens to pad rotation?
(You'll see the dry pad rotates better than the wet pad).

Originally posted by 02zx9r View Post

Good to know that meg's does not sell smaller pads, so apparently the bigger pads will do the job with the trade off potentially being longer time to do the vehicle, more passes using same product, or different product, longer working times etc...

There's some trade off in time and safety as well as versatility as our 7" pads can be used with either a DA Polisher or a Rotary Buffer.

**02zx9r** · Jan 19, 2009, 03:21 PM

Re: Are smaller pads needed for a DA?

I have the PC 7424 but Im sure it will work fine for me for starters