205 and Marring?

[SCBMW]

Hey MOL people,

Just started using the G110 for the first time this week. I have been a long time lurker and read many stickies and threads about the DA. I even took an intro class from a Meguiar's Rep. (Thanks Darin P.) After some practice on my dad's neglected Chevy, I started to work on my black car. I washed with Shampoo Plus using the 2BM and lambswool mitt. The car is fairly new and only has light swirls from hand-washing. After I dried the car with 4 water magnets, I pulled it in the garage to do some paint correction. To make a long story short, I used some 205 on a polish and finishing pad and resulted with horrible micro marring on my 2 x 2 test spot. I did the pad prep w/QD and worked slow and little pressure on both pads. I'm stuck guys.......... What can I do next to fix?

[RaskyR1]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Hey MOL people,

Just started using the G110 for the first time this week. I have been a long time lurker and read many stickies and threads about the DA. I even took an intro class from a Meguiar's Rep. (Thanks Darin P.) After some practice on my dad's neglected Chevy, I started to work on my black car. I washed with Shampoo Plus using the 2BM and lambswool mitt. The car is fairly new and only has light swirls from hand-washing. After I dried the car with 4 water magnets, I pulled it in the garage to do some paint correction. To make a long story short, I used some 205 on a polish and finishing pad and resulted with horrible micro marring on my 2 x 2 test spot. I did the pad prep w/QD and worked slow and little pressure on both pads. I'm stuck guys.......... What can I do next to fix?

How were you working the polish in?

You want to start off applying about 15lbs of pressure for a few passes, and then let up on the pressure for the last few passes.

I used it on my car, which typically would micro marr, and it came out looking great for me.

[Nappers]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Here's a quote from Kevin Brown:

Work time is very good.
I split 'work time' into two categories: Working cycle or abrasive cycle.

The working cycle is a design parameter.
Meaning, the amount of time the liquid removes paint with a reasonable (or common) amount of downward pressure was considered and designed into the product. So, once the lubricating agents have evaporated or soaked into the pad, or once the designer/and or user of the liquid feels that the liquid no longer delivers a positive change to the paint surface, the cycle is over. Maybe the abrasive becomes less efficient at removing defects, or possibly so much paint has been removed it packs the pad (or surrounds the abrasive), causing swirls and/or diminished performance.

The abrasive cycle is the time that the abrasive can continue to abrade paint and deliver a consistently abraded paint surface. With this product, I can blow the pad clean (with compressed air), and continue to fine polish the paint surface (with a random-orbital). Even though most of the polish has been removed via cleaning, there's still some attached to the pad (and moisture remains permeated through the foam).

Cut time is going to astonish those that will be using the M105 with an orbital for the first time.
Rotary users may or may not notice a difference in cut time, but that depends upon many variables, such as pad choice, speed choice, and applied downward pressure. Overall, an overwhelming majority of field testers saw no difference (meaning, the cut was great).

As for M205, it is quite simply the most incredible polish I've ever used, and I've been 'rubbin' cars' for 24 years. This is a no-brainer polish, and it will even blow the skirts up on the 'gurus' of the polishing world.

So far, I've seen the best results by applying 25-30 pounds of total downward pressure, and move the G100 at about one-inch per second. Of course, I am being VERY persnickety. For reference, I put my G100 with a W8006 on a digital scale, and held the machine as I normally would apply a product such as M09, M83, or M66. That downward pressure (with the machine weight included) registered 16 pounds.

Buy this stuff. You will become a great paint polisher overnight, you'll make more money, you'll make new friends, retire early, and live a long, healthy, prosperous life.

Well, okay, a bit of exaggeration there. But the paint polisher overnight stuff has merit.

Also, the guy above me (Rasky R1) knows a thing or two about the new products . He has made some nice threads on M205 that may prove helpful.

Keep us posted.

[getcha]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Your car isn't BMW jet black is it?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 205 and Marring?

We need to do some troubleshooting,


Do you have a different car/paint system you can repeat the same process with? That would troubleshoot if it is the paint. Some paints are not very polishable no matter what you use.

Next, do you have any other chemicals you can test with? How about some ScratchX? The idea being to see if you can recover with a different product or if it's happening with all products.


What speed setting did you use?

Just to double check, these were Meguiar's foam pads, the small ones?

Happy to hear you only did a test spot and when things didn't turn out right you posted here for help.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Just changed your form name to SCBMW, please read our forum rules about forum nick names as this is a family friendly forum.

Forum Rules
(See Rule #5)


Thanks,

[SCBMW]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Your car isn't BMW jet black is it?

Yesch....... (said in the way of THE OFFICE!)

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Yesch....... (said in the way of THE OFFICE!)

Go to any auto parts store and pick up a tube of ScratchX and do a test by hand applying this product to just a portion of the section you've already machine cleaned using a clean, soft foam applicator pad. When doing this work the ScratchX for about a minute with firm pressure but no so hard that your hand instills scratches. You're trying to work out the micro-marring.

Then repeat using the ScratchX with your DA Polisher, if it works by hand it should work by machine.

See if that fixes the problem. Sounds like you have really soft paint. Some paints just aren't as polishable as others.

[getcha]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Oh boy.

I havent had the chance to use 205 yet but with Jet Black youre gonna have some um...fun.

Jet Black by BMW is probably along the lines of being one of the softest, most difficult paints(for those without experience) to play with.

There are tons of reports of Jet Black marring with even the slightest touch from the softest microfiber.

DA machines with finishing pads and even something like an AIO or finishing polish produce nasty micromarring(just like you have experienced). Which if you think about is even harder to get out considering how

On forums asking "which car color do I get" people have been advised to stay away from Jet Black because of the constant care it would require plus the fact that its so hard to even lightly polish with a DA with it being so incredibly soft.

Typically its the orbital action of the DA that creates this micromarring and unfortunately I don't think there is a report yet of anyone using a DA successfully. I recall another thread on a another forum about new car prep on this color to just AIO it on a finishing pad and then seal or wax, but then this was recommended not to do because it would just marr everything.

All that being said I have had the luxury of working with Jet Black recently and if it weren't for the customers friend being a friend and great regular of mine, I would have turned it down. I ended up using only a rotary and it finished out fantastic but I did just try a small spot with a PC to see what people were talking about and its for real. This paint was a nightmare but fortunately finished out great enough for the guy to sell(thank goodness the man listened). A rotary is the only polishing that will work, I think in this case

My advice is to trade the car in for the Sapphire Black(the metallic black, I think thats the name) or find a top level professional in your area proficient with a rotary or one who has experienced Jet Black. Black is a ton of work to keep nice, Jet Black is at a whole nother' level. Its so soft that even with the best of best washing techniques and drying techniques you will easily get some marring..the paint is too darn soft for IMO anything.

I hope this helps..sorry for the scatter. That has been my experience

[SCBMW]

Re: 205 and Marring?

We need to do some troubleshooting,


Next, do you have any other chemicals you can test with? How about some ScratchX? The idea being to see if you can recover with a different product or if it's happening with all products.


What speed setting did you use?

Just to double check, these were Meguiar's foam pads, the small ones?

Happy to hear you only did a test spot and when things didn't turn out right you posted here for help.

Thanks for the quick reply Mike! You guys are Awesome!

I have some DC1, 80, and Scratch X. I used the 80 and still left some marring, but it was better.

My speed for 205, and 80 were at 5 and used the Softbuff pads 2.0

After Reading Nappers and Rasky replies, (thanks by the way) I didn't put much pressure on the DA while doing the correction. I saw the pad slow down and stop spinning, so I put very little pressure on the DA. This might be my problem!! I was just gently pushing on the polisher and holding it in place. Practice makes better right! I will try this again 2morrow. I'm excited to get it right.

Thanks for all the help! I'll keep you posted. I know I was doing some thing wrong!

Sorry about the name thing. It just comes second nature to call Las Vegas
that.

[getcha]

Re: 205 and Marring?

GOOD LUCK!!! I have my fingers crossed for you buddy!

[SCBMW]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Oh boy.

I havent had the chance to use 205 yet but with Jet Black youre gonna have some um...fun.

Jet Black by BMW is probably along the lines of being one of the softest, most difficult paints(for those without experience) to play with.

There are tons of reports of Jet Black marring with even the slightest touch from the softest microfiber.

Mannnnnn! I love this color! it's already 4 months old. No going back now.....
Tell me it ain't so.............

Anyone? What about Color X or M66?

[Black Bart]

Re: 205 and Marring?

I own 3 Black vehicles and will buy more.
I love the look of a Black car and I don't find it so difficult to maintain.
Here is a photo of one of my Black cars polished with #80

Don't give up on the Black once you learn how it is not that hard to keep it looking awesome.

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/15930/ppuser/4503

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Anyone? What about Color X or M66?

Yes.

Either one of these with a clean foam finishing pad on the 4.0 to 5.0 speed setting.

ColorX is real easy to find and very affordable, when you can, give it a try and let us know how it turns out.

A rotary buffer can get you out of the micro-marring problems associated with some paints and DA style polishers but they historically leave buffer trails, buffer swirls, holograms, (whatever you want to call them), if you strip the finish and view the paint in bright sunlight.

So there's a benefit and a drawback to their use. Not saying a swirl free finish can't be achieved using only a rotary buffer because it can be but not on all paint systems.

Just wanted to add that...

[getcha]

Re: 205 and Marring?

Definitely Mike, but historically only because of the lack of experience of the rotary user, someone who may not know a progression of steps or may not know technique amidst a bunch of other necessary things including unavoidable environmental factors for example.