buffer holograms on black cars

[chip douglas]

Hi,

is it possible to leave NO holograms on black cars, using the rotary only ? Or it's sorta like mission impossible ? I'm using Meg's finishing pads, with #82.

Let me know as I'm beginning to think it's impossible.

[Bill D]

It is, just takes an awful lot of skill. Even some of the best still follow up with a PC/Cyclo just to save aggrevation

[Rick]

Your talking about holograms left from a wool pad right? If so yes they can deffinitely be completely removed by rotary, in fact I've done it twice recently. I think if 82 isn't quite cutting it I'd suggest stepping up to 83 (which I use for this) and a foam polishing pad. Put a stripe on the area your going to work on and pick it up with the pad. While working it in you need to work at a rate so you can get it to break down. Foam's way different than wool, you can slow down significantly. Press down so that the center of the pad is lower than the outer edges of the pad and concentrate on about a 2' X 2' area at one time. My personal preference here is 1400 rpm

Here's the black Mitsubishi I worked on a few days ago.



Here's after rotary DACP and a coat of NXT (I think the hoods waxed in this picture)



It helps a lot when you can get someone to show you how to do it. Don't give up, it can be done. Black is a love hate relationship.

(BTW, this one's for sale too)

[chip douglas]

i wish it was from a wool pad, but I get holograms out of Meg's finishing pads with #82 ;-( I've tried everything and now im going nuts, or close to it. I'm overlapping each stroke by 50% but still I get them--it's awful and I wonder what it is I'm doing wrong. I too run the buffer at 1400 rpm.

I've used all kind of pressure and still doesnt cut it. I always prime my pad prior to starting a job, but even that didnt help. I'm at my wits end really.

[DETLMAN]

If you are using 82 and are leaving buffer marks there is definatly something wrong. Are you holding the pad flat to the surface ? Running on the edge can cause this.

When I buff I start out with a some pressure ( depending on the job ) and then as the product breaks down I ease up the pressure and on black I tend to actually lift the polisher on the last couple passes to relive any pressure and reduce any heat. Can you possibly post a picture of the marks?

One more question, can it be the marks are really just the oily residue from the product and not really buffer marks ? Take a little rubbing alcohol and wipe down part of the area you are working on, now you will see the paint in its bare form...what you see is what you get, no wax no filers nothing to hide any imperfections.

If you can eliminate the things I mentioned as possible problems and your pads are clean and the paint is clean then I am lost as for what might be causing the problem other than technique ??

[chip douglas]

I'll try and get a shot of what Im describing. They're what I call buffer trails--most of them are 3/4 of an inch wide and vary in length...some are 6 inches long, others more.

I did wipe down the area with isopropyl alcohol, as you say to make sure it's not oily residues--I wish they were, but they're definately not residues. The paint is squeaky clean and yet they're still there. I keep the pad flat to the surface, with perhaps a slight 3 degree angle on fenders. When you buff, do you use a specific section of the pad, or the whole pad ? If I pay very close attention and overlap each stroke, it helps, but even then I can see some. On vertical panels do you buff up and down or lenghtwise ? I spin the buffer at 1400 rpm which is ok as far as I know.

Keep me posted

[DETLMAN]

Ok this migh be a stupid question but I am going to ask anyway. Were the marks there before or you are sure you are making the marks ? If they were there before you need to step up the product to remove the marks and then go back down to the 82.

If this is the case try #83 same speed and type of pad.

Personally I can get a swirl free finish on black most of the time with #83 and a polishing pad. Even though I still follow up with #82 or #9 and then NXT or #20.

[chip douglas]

I'm 100 % sure Im making the marks/swirls, or holograms. On the same area, I buff, wash, then look at it in the sun and see them, then go back in the shade, buff the same area again, wash it, rinse it, then go back in the sun, look at it and it's either worse or better than the previous time......my results over the same area vary a lot from one time to another.

[Rick]

Ok question, have you had someone show you the proper method for using a rotary buffer? I mean I thought I had the idea, but until recently I finally got some professional teaching and though my method was alright before I'm finding it in myself to produce some much better results now. Take the Mitsubishi in the pictures above, I really don't think I could have gotten rid of those holograms before being shown proper method.

Were these there before you started using the rotary on the car? Is your pad clean? Are you holding the pad flat against the surface?

Sorry can't resist.

[chip douglas]

Were these there before you started using the rotary on the car? Is your pad clean? Are you holding the pad flat against the surface?

[Nope they definately weren't there, the pad you bet is cleaned after each panel. As to the pad I keep it flat as humanly possible. But it the slightest tweak produce swirls, then results cannot be consistent. The more I think about it, the more I think it's cause I didn't overlap properly.

Do you move on and down on vertical panels, or lengthwise ?

Many thanks

[Rick]

Shouldn't matter which way you go. In fact I've done both, start up and down, then on a second time over go side to side to ensure full coverage of an area.

I suppose I should mention here I have never used 82, though I have 83 and 81, so maybe there is something I'm missing. Given what you've said though it sounds like something isn't right in the equation if I had to take a stab at it. How long have you been using the rotary for?

[chip douglas]

been using it for 2 years now. What's really weird is it is the first car I've had problems with. It's a black metallic BC/CC car.

[DETLMAN]

hmmm this is one of those situations that makes it soo hard to give a one size fits all answer to a given problem.

If you have been using the rotary and have gotten good results and this is the exception then you need to move to a different aproach to finish this particular vehicle. If it were me I would first get the marks a slight as possible and then switch to a milder product and a finishing pad, also slow th ebuffer to around 1000 - 1200 if there problem still exists I would switch to the d/a and a finishing pad using # 82.

These are just sugestions, since this is a trouble car they may or may not help without seeing it its really hard to say.

Pix would help

Good luck

[Rick]

I'm agreeing with Deltaman. Try the porter cable and maybe something less aggressive and see how things result.

[chip douglas]

I've also tried 3M's 5937 which is very mild, and still I get the holograms . I'm already using a finishing pad --Meg's finishing pad that is, the 6.5 inches one. The pad is brand new on top of it.

I'm going to ask you this : what happens if you don't overlap strokes by 50 % ?

Later and thanks for trying to help out here.