21's durability?

[LaRgO]

Hey guys,
Down in australia we only got #21 sealant (i've been doing some lurking and read of the better forumla provided by m21 but that doesn't help me :P)

anyways, my question is that does anyone have problems in regards to durability with this sealant? I put on about 4 coats 1-2 months ago and its starting too loose its effect; and i wash my car weekly

firstly within a week i notice the car looses its smooth-as-glass surface feel that you get after detailing a car; i figured because contaminants got stuck on the surface; and most got washed off with a light wash; but even after a wash when the car dries surface "grips" my finger sliding along it very quickly rather than after a fresh sealant coat where i would slide off it
* i wash my car using just NXT generation car wash, this wouldnt strip off the sealant would it?
* also i notice that when it rains after a fresh coat of sealant doesn't repel dirt being stuck all over my car, does that sound right? i live opposite the road from a bush (no australia jokes please :P) haha

now i notice the water still beaded which is fine, i figured that might be enough too tell me that there is still sealant; but last wash on my car a few days ago i notice the sides of my car the water doesn't bead off but sheets off

now i use meg's applicator pads, let it sit for 15min and wipe off with the microfibre cloths (clean/nwe ones); i waited 12-24hrs between coats!

any ideas guys?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 21's durability?

Nothing looks as good as a freshly waxed car and the more the finish is washed the more the results will fall off.

Washing can micro-abrade a coating of wax or a paint sealant. So if you're washing often and want to maintain the maximum protection and beauty then wax more often.

[LaRgO]

Re: 21's durability?

hey mike let me start off by saying thanks for the reply.

err did my original thread disappear?? well at any rate; would something like the "soft wash" soap be less abrasive towards the coating of sealant i use? by the way i don't use any wax's just #21 sealant

[Markus Kleis]

Re: 21's durability?

First of all, welcome to MOL Largo!

As for your questions, I will first start by saying that Meguiar's does not officially preach the concept of "layering" wax so adding 3-4 layers is not something that Meguiar's would suggest would add durability.

That said, there are some users that find by giving 12-24 hours BETWEEN coats and applying THIN, even coats that each pass the swipe test can possibly add some durability. Looks like you already got that part down.

As for your soap removing wax- it shouldn't. You do want to make sure that you use the proper amount of soap because I believe making it too strong can remove some wax.

Did you clay and clean the surface before waxing?

There is also a topic that addresses your question in the "Hot Topics" section, found here.

the other suggestion I would give is to use either UQD or M135 every day, or every other day to help boost the protection. I haven't technically waxed my car in 4 months and it beads water like nobodies business! (Thanks to UQD!)

[Murr1525]

Re: 21's durability?

All of Meguiars soaps are safe for your coat of wax.

[LaRgO]

Re: 21's durability?

First of all, welcome to MOL Largo!

As for your questions, I will first start by saying that Meguiar's does not officially preach the concept of "layering" wax so adding 3-4 layers is not something that Meguiar's would suggest would add durability.

That said, there are some users that find by giving 12-24 hours BETWEEN coats and applying THIN, even coats that each pass the swipe test can possibly add some durability. Looks like you already got that part down.

As for your soap removing wax- it shouldn't. You do want to make sure that you use the proper amount of soap because I believe making it too strong can remove some wax.

Did you clay and clean the surface before waxing?

There is also a topic that addresses your question in the "Hot Topics" section, found here.

the other suggestion I would give is to use either UQD or M135 every day, or every other day to help boost the protection. I haven't technically waxed my car in 4 months and it beads water like nobodies business! (Thanks to UQD!)

All of Meguiars soaps are safe for your coat of wax.

So there may be no advantage to layering wax or sealants?

Well i was thinking that the soap may be the problem, but i just dilute it; for instance nxt generation car wash says 3 cap fulls per 4L but i do 3 cap fulls in a 8L bucket so its way more diluted.
Infact when i wash my car i get barely any soap suds form! im not sure if its because of the thick sealant doesnt allow the soap to foam on the surface of the car but regardless it didn't seem like it was too strong?

I read that thread you linked, it was on NXT generation 2.0 wax, wouldn't that be consideribly different to a sealant?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 21's durability?

So there may be no advantage to layering wax or sealants?

No one has ever proved it. Lots of people talk about it on forums but no one has proved you can create a thicker and thicker layer of protection with a procedure that you and I can repeat in our garage and that also doesn't start to cloud the finish or diminish clarity.

No one. All these years of different gurus and personalities on other forums preaching layering and yet today, no one can prove that more and more applications of any product will create a thicker and thicker layer of wax or paint sealant.

Well i was thinking that the soap may be the problem,

It's your application material. Anytime you touch your car's paint you're using some kind of APPLICATION MATERIAL. Lot's of people apply a wax with a foam wax applicator pad, the application material is foam. Lots of people wash their car by hand, they use a wash mitt to apply the soap and and then push this wash mitt over the surface of the paint.

The Wash Mitt is made of something, this is your APPLICATION MATERIAL. Moving your wash mitt over the surface can cause micro-abrading and slowly abrade your coating of wax or paint sealant off the paint.

Think about it, would washing a car over and over again add more wax or paint sealant?

If washing a car doesn't add more wax or paint sealant... what's the opposite of add?

Just to note, I've been typing on the Internet on the topic of car detailing since 1994 and there are a certain percentage of online enthusiasts that are completely AR about every little detail about products and process, this isn't necessarily a bad thing but it has taught me to type in a very detailed way to completely satisfy their AR curiosity. For these cases it helps sometimes to position things in "Extremes".

Make sense?

I read that thread you linked, it was on NXT generation 2.0 wax, wouldn't that be considerably different to a sealant?

You're caught up in the old "WAX" vs "PAINT SEALANT" topic.

NXT and M21 are made from all synthetic materials so by most AR Enthusiasts definitions, these are both Sealants.

On the Consumer version, we chose to use the word "WAX" for the name of NXT and thus on the label and associated marketing copy because the average person shopping at AutoZone is looking for two things,

Car Wash
Car Wax

As soon as you start to complicate the product by complicating the name you're going to loose some people. If you study marketing you'll learn that people are Scanners, that is they scan text whether it's on a newspaper or the wax shelf at AutoZone. If the name on the label confuses people they switch to default thinking and buy a product they can understand, thus they will buy something with the name "wax" on it. Online Enthusiasts like yourself know a lot more than the average person but knowledgeable people are the exception, not the rule, so you don't create packaging for the exceptions, you make packaging to be universal and for the average person, at least for the "Retail World". For Internet marketing only you can create Boutique Products with boutique packaging but none of this is targeted at the masses

Here's an old, old saying that still rings true today...

KISS

Keep It Simple Simon


Hope that helps...

[angeloabbattista]

Re: 21's durability?

Hey guys,
Down in australia we only got #21 sealant (i've been doing some lurking and read of the better forumla provided by m21 but that doesn't help me :P)

Just an update to let you know that we do have #21 V2 here in Australia

Cheers

[LaRgO]

Re: 21's durability?

No one has ever proved it. Lots of people talk about it on forums but no one has proved you can create a thicker and thicker layer of protection with a procedure that you and I can repeat in our garage and that also doesn't start to cloud the finish or diminish clarity.

No one. All these years of different gurus and personalities on other forums preaching layering and yet today, no one can prove that more and more applications of any product will create a thicker and thicker layer of wax or paint sealant.

I understand, its probably more important to save doing those "several coats" once every few weeks or month rather than at once!

It's your application material. Anytime you touch your car's paint you're using some kind of APPLICATION MATERIAL. Lot's of people apply a wax with a foam wax applicator pad, the application material is foam. Lots of people wash their car by hand, they use a wash mitt to apply the soap and and then push this wash mitt over the surface of the paint.

The Wash Mitt is made of something, this is your APPLICATION MATERIAL. Moving your wash mitt over the surface can cause micro-abrading and slowly abrade your coating of wax or paint sealant off the paint.

Think about it, would washing a car over and over again add more wax or paint sealant?

If washing a car doesn't add more wax or paint sealant... what's the opposite of add?

I suppose, i just didnt expect such a significant difference in the smoothness with only a few washes! If i want to be that anal about the smooth surface then i better be prepared to upkeep the sealant. Lucky I got 2L of this stuff :P

Just to note, I've been typing on the Internet on the topic of car detailing since 1994 and there are a certain percentage of online enthusiasts that are completely AR about every little detail about products and process, this isn't necessarily a bad thing but it has taught me to type in a very detailed way to completely satisfy their AR curiosity. For these cases it helps sometimes to position things in "Extremes".

Make sense?

Perfect. I am very AR about a lot of things I do and thats why your post doesn't create more questions because you pretty much exhausted my curiosity .

You're caught up in the old "WAX" vs "PAINT SEALANT" topic.

NXT and M21 are made from all synthetic materials so by most AR Enthusiasts definitions, these are both Sealants.

On the Consumer version, we chose to use the word "WAX" for the name of NXT and thus on the label and associated marketing copy because the average person shopping at AutoZone is looking for two things,

Car Wash
Car Wax

As soon as you start to complicate the product by complicating the name you're going to loose some people. If you study marketing you'll learn that people are Scanners, that is they scan text whether it's on a newspaper or the wax shelf at AutoZone. If the name on the label confuses people they switch to default thinking and buy a product they can understand, thus they will buy something with the name "wax" on it. Online Enthusiasts like yourself know a lot more than the average person but knowledgeable people are the exception, not the rule, so you don't create packaging for the exceptions, you make packaging to be universal and for the average person, at least for the "Retail World". For Internet marketing only you can create Boutique Products with boutique packaging but none of this is targeted at the masses

Here's an old, old saying that still rings true today...

KISS

Keep It Simple Simon


Hope that helps...

Makes sense. I remember speaking to my friend about detailing his car and he just washes it, he doesnt even shammy dry it and his car looks like it had a fight with a wire brush (spider webs as far as the eye can see). The most he's ever gotten into is using this same-colour wax filler which did a horrific job covering the scratches all over his car. He paid $120 to have his car detailed, they didn't do anything inside and they didn't even bother to claybar the car!
Only after speaking to other people do you really realise how far in you are with detailing. I'll detail my car in front of my friends and I'll be saying my car is an absoloute mess; they look at my car with the jaw dropped saying how clean it is!

Thanks for your detailed post mike! you know how to reply to even the annoying consumer such as myself cheers

Just an update to let you know that we do have #21 V2 here in Australia

Cheers

wow really?? I'll get my friend to order some from repco! i just have about 1L of sealant left too finish up first

[angeloabbattista]

Re: 21's durability?

If you want to get 21 V2.0 as well as the full Meguiars range available in Australia online you can buy them from CarCareProducts. Greg's very helpful and will look after you.
Cheers.

[HagFan]

Re: 21's durability?

In the spring I do the full detail -- wash, clay, Cleaner/Wax, #21 (original version). I wash them with Meguiar's Hyper Wash pretty much weekly, perhaps only bi-weekly in the winter. Subsequent wax jobs I might only re-apply the #21 or maybe precede it with Cleaner/Wax.

My silver Camry stays beautiful with only one claying per year. I only get around to waxing this on 2-3 times per year. My darker Honda does best with two claying per year since I park daily at an industrial plant. I wax this one 3-4 times per year.

So my claim is that the #21 can last as long as 6 months for my use and a minimum of 4 months.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 21's durability?

I am very AR about a lot of things I do and thats why your post doesn't create more questions because you pretty much exhausted my curiosity

Thanks for your detailed post mike! you know how to reply to even the annoying consumer such as myself cheers

No problemo...