I am trying to figure out what is causing the micro-marring when I am applying M80 or M83 with my G100. I never noticed it until recently when I was detailing a friend's black Ford pickup. The surprising thing is that I have almost the same exact black truck and have never noticed the micro marring on my truck until now. I have been using the g100 on my truck for over a year with no problems until recently. Today I went into my garage to try and figure out what I am doing wrong. I started off using M105 with a new w8006 pad, made couple passes, wiped it off and everything looked fine. Then I went to M83 with another w8006 pad and bam, micro-marring. Then tried M80 with the same results. I tried another pass with more pressure, but still no good. I'm pretty sure that I am using it long enough being that I made at least 4 passes in a 16" x 16" section in about a 1 1/2 minute. I tried using less product and then more product, no help. Can anyone give me anymore ideas of what to try? I plan on trying again tomorrow, but I don't know what else to try.
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Micro Marring with M83 & M80
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
Normally, M80 will remove any micro marring from M83. Not sure if you are exactly doing anything wrong. Sounds like your process is pretty good. M105 is not meant for use with the DA polisher. It is meant to be used by rotary or hand. Some have used it with the DA with varying results. I haven't tried it with the DA as of yet.
AndyKeeping MOL family friendly! If you need help or have a question, don't hesitate to shoot me an email or PM. 101impala@gmail.com
Andy M. Moderator
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
It sounds like you are possibly not allowing the abrasives to fully break down. That is one reason some people think it is easier to work #83 on a rotary then on a DA/G100 (Rotary breaks it down faster). That is NOT to say the G100 can not do the same job with more time!
In other words, with the PC make sure to really work it into the paint well and have it on speed 4-5 too.
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
I gave it another try today with the M80 and I am still marring the paint. I tried working the M80 with a good amount of pressure and worked for about 3 minutes with several passes and still the same results. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
Hmm, at this point I would suggest using a finishing pad rather than a polishing pad. If you still have the problem, then try playing with combinations of a less aggressive product like #09 and the finishing pad or the polishing pad.
You may need to do some testing to find if it is the pad, or the product doing the marring. I am leaning towards the pad...but there is no way of knowing for sure, really. Test it out!
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
You probably are not doing anything wrong with your technique, some paints are just very sensitive and black will tend to show imperfections more then any other color. I have a black '02 dodge intrepid in my family that will turn very hazy when buffed with a DA & #80, and I have watched the PC training video worked it every possible way.
You have three options. First you could try using the #80 with a finishing pad, I have had good results with this, the paint comes out with no haze, you need to be real careful about using perfect technique though. Second you could follow up with a less agressive product like #9, #82, or color X, and third you could use scratch-X with your PC, which believe it or not has produced the absolute best results in my experience, it always comes out crystal clear, even if you get a bit sloppy on one panel and don't use perfect technique, here's a link about using scratch-X with a PC...
I am now a HUGE fan of Scratch-X! I've got a black Corvette, and my usual method of removing swirls and light scratches with my DA has been to use either #83 or #80 first (depending on the severity of the area) then following it with #9 to get rid of any micromarring, then finishing it off with my LSP (I'm now using NXT 2.0,
By the way, I'm really suprised that 80 made your paint haze, and 105 didn't, I really need to try 105!
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
The recommendations in the thread prior to this one are right on. I have the same problem with my corvette. Very hard paint and very scratch sensitive. The finishing pad with a very mild polish (like listed above) may do the job. Another option is M66 with the finish pad.-Bob
NXTti graduate, Meguiars Ford/SEMA Team
"All Corvette's are red, the rest are mistakes" - John Heinricy (Corvette Engineer)
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
I had the same problem when I first started out, frustrated the heck out of me. I finally realized that the sub-par MF towel I was using to remove the polish was causing the marring! I got some Supreme Shine towels and the mystery was solved!
I have since invested in some very nice "Cookie Monster" MF towels and would not use anything else for removing polish.
Good luck
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
I tried to get rid of micro-marring for a couple summers refining my technique to no avail. Some paints don't seem to take well to the DA. I've usually gotten micro-marring with M82 and M09 on the DA, and those are less aggresive than M80! They've usually been GM paints, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
Two solutions that work for me:
If you have a rotary, finish with M82 on a finishing pad and gradually slow your speed down to 600-900 RPMs and lighten up the pressure. I've gotten little no holograms with this technique, although on areas where there is more curvature to the panel, I still can't completely get rid of the holograms. However, the reflections from a rotary finish are crystal clear.
Another suggestion, if you just have the DA, is to use a finishing pad with Color-X or Scratch-X or M66 cleaner/wax. I haven't used Color-X, but I've used M66 and recently Scratch-X(per OhioCarBuff's suggestion) and had great results. The M66 was never on a dark car, but I have a dark red Altima and recently tried Scratch-X and didn't observe any micro-marring. Be sure you use the Scratch-X that says it's formulated for use with DA, as there are probably still some of the older bottles still floating around. On a side note, I mistakenly used my older, non-DA bottle and it didn't seem to do anything different that I could see.
With Scratch-X and the DA, I tried two passes in each direction, overlapping by 50% at speed 4-4.5, then made one pass in each direction at around speed 1-2 with the idea of being as gentle as possible. It usually went pretty clear after the two passes each direction with a slow arm speed.
Hope that helps."Do the job right, or don't do it!" - Dad
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
Thank you guys for the different suggestions. I do have some Scratch-X in the garage I will have to try. I might pick up a bottle of 82 or 09 and try those too. I will get back with my results after the weekend.
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
Try the ColorX with a foam finishing pad on the 5.0 speed setting.
Make sure you pad is rotating, mark it with a black permanent marker to make it easier to see when it's rotating.
As for the difference results... paint systems can be different even on the same model cars as paint manufactures can change paint systems.
Check out this thread...
Paint Workability - The Hardness or Softness of your car's paint
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
Originally posted by Blackford View PostYou know I always hear people say make sure the pad is rotating. Does it matter how fast the pad is rotating or as long as it is rotating I'm ok?
The problem/safety feature with DA Polishers as compared to a direct drive machine like a rotary buffer is that they have a clutch, (which is the safety feature), to help prevent burning through the paint because if too much pressure is applied to the unit the pad will stop rotating and just vibrate.
If you're just spreading a product out, that is if you're applying a wax after doing the paint correction step, then it doesn't matter as much as the tool will do a good job of spreading out a layer of wax whether it's rotating/oscillating or vibrating.
But when you're trying to remove below surface defects, the way you do this is by removing paint and DA Polishers remove paint most effectively when the pad is moving over the surface with the right combination of foam material and paint cleaning/abrasive product than if it's just vibrating against the paint with this same pad and chemical.
Does that make sense?
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Re: Micro Marring with M83 & M80
You should try M66 or ColorX with a polishing pad or maybe even a finishing pad. This combination has worked for me, I have a Honda Accord which tends to be vulnerable to micromarring from using stronger paint cleaners.Erik Mejia
Polishing Paint removes the stress in my life, and the swirls on my car.
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