too much product

[Override]

hey everyone, so as i am new to detailing, i am still working out the kinks as you can say.

so, i am pretty sure i am using too much product. but i would like your opinions to make sure. first, i am posting pictures of 85 i used on a car this weekend. this car has major scratches and it took 3 passes to get it somewhat ok, followed up with d151, end result was great... but.

Here is stage one: too much product i know this. but is it worked enough ? it was easier to remove this.



As i worked it just a little more, 20 seconds maybe this is what it looked like... gummy. doh. It's also hard to remove.




Then on another spot i used only a small amount on the pad, maybe 4 dime sized drops. worked it for a bit until it cleared up and was mostly gone.



So, which was the best way to do it , or best combination of tactics.

By the way, am using a flex 3401 and at a speed 5 out of 6.


Next problem... here is what i did to one of my pads after using the flex for about 6 hours straight... i guess it should take a break...

broken pad: too much heat from the polisher, not from the product side. time to order a new one.




Then my flex... it's dirty i know... that is what i get when i used a wet pad and added product and spun it up... splatter all over... .

Anyways, the problem: too much heat from the center of the backing plate: why is that: too much work time, too fast or does it need to be greased, because the manual says nothing about greasing it or generating heat.

See the center of the backing plate has actually melted plastic... also when the above pad was damaged.




So, if you can comment on these for me that would be great to help me make my detailing a little smoother.

[Andy M.]

Re: too much product

Well....In the first two pictures you are using way too much product which is why it is hard to remove and gummed up on you.
The third picture is much better. That is what it should look like. It doesn't take a lot of product to remove blemishes but it may take 1 or 2 passes. Your pad probably overheated because you were using too much product which in turn made the machine work harder than it should have been, which melted the glue holding the velcro on the pad. Yes that pad is shot time to buy a new one. I am not to familiar with the Flex but if part of your backing plate melted I would invest in another one of them also. If it is actually part of the machine that melted I would call whomever you purchased it from.

One other thing. You need to find the common denominator between the first pic and the third pic as far as how much product to use. In the first 2 you are using too much, and in the last one you are using too little. You should have a slight haze when the product is worked enough. The third pic looks like a dry buff, where you can no longer see any product at all. Try putting a bead of product 1/4 inch in from the edge of the pad and see how that works for you. I will find a picture of it and show you what I mean.

Hope that helps a little.

Andy

[Override]

Re: too much product

yah, that helps a lot. i was sure it was too much product, but i wanted to confirm, thanks.

also, i am going to remove the backing plate and check the insides... so i hope that someone else with a flex can shed some light on this too.

Ryan

[yalerd]

Re: too much product

First thing that I see and you know, too much product!

The pad ended up like that because maybe you are not cleaning your pad on the fly, so your making the pad heavier and remember that if you saturate the pad then you'll cut a lot less. Clean your pad on the fly and some time to time (in the cleaning phase) change your pad.

You shouldn't dry buff but I think, from the picture you are not working the product entirely.
The third picture looks a lot better.

Maybe from the first time you begin using a pad you'll need more product but with time then you'll start using less and less

[Andy M.]

Re: too much product

Here you go. I borrowed one of Mike Phillips pictures.



Andy

[Mike Phillips]

Re: too much product

First, M85 is for use with a wool pad on a rotary buffer not a foam pad on any type of machine.

Do you have access to a rotary buffer?

Besides that, if you're going to use the Flex as your main power tool then at this time it would probably be good to stick with our products we recommend for use with DA type polishers... that would include,

D151
M83
M80
M82
M09

Some people have had good luck with M105 but at this time that's not an official Meguiar's recommendation.

The M85 you're using is a drier product and more geared for use with wool so that's why you're running into the gumming up problems.

Instead of trying to help you to use the wrong product for the job you need to get the right product for the job or more specifically the right product for the tool you're using.

[Override]

Re: too much product

Thanks Andy, that is actually more product in those pictures then i was using...

so , it must be the product type...

thanks Mike to pointing out the proper use of m85. i don't have a wool pad, nor a rotary yet. i wanted to stick to one machine, which is why i got the flex... power of the rotary but still better then a DA.

I also have 83, which i will try with my Meguire's maroon pad ( i think the number is 9006, but i can't remember ).

So, if i go with the 83 and the 9006 , and the amount of product in the above picture, i should work it until it look something like this....



Then wipe off the residue.


or does someone have a better picture of what it really should look like after it has properly broken down.

I happen to have a boat load of 151 and try to use that most of the time... but this paint/clearcoat is DAMN hard and the 151 with a polishing pad did almost nothing... 83 did work a bit, but the 85 actually did better , even though i used it on a foam pad / DA. I probably could have wet sanded the ENTIRE car and be further ahead.. my sanding marks on the hood polished out with ease compared to the scratches this car had all over it.

thanks again guys.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: too much product

I you are going to use #83 I think you want to use the W8006 pad. The W9006 is more for applying waxes. Usually to do paint correction you want to go with the W8006 pad.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: too much product

I probably could have wet sanded the ENTIRE car and be further ahead.. my sanding marks on the hood polished out with ease compared to the scratches this car had all over it.

That could be true. The Flex definitely has some power, it's just a matter of finding the right pad and product combo to leverage the power.

Do they make a wool pad designed for use with a Flex buffer? If so, wool by itself is a cutter which combined with your product will give to two things cutting for you.

As for removing random scratches versus sanding marks goes... when you don't know how deep the random scratches are that makes removing them kind of a guessing game.

On the other hand if you sand them completely out and finish with a higher grit paper then you know how deep your sanding marks are and are thus able to choose a pad and product combo known to be able to remove a certain depth sanding mark.

The problem is if you're working on a factory clear coat besides paint hardness is film-build, that is how much clear do you have to work with.

There's also a difference between what you can do and what you should do. You might have enough clear paint to be able to completely remove all the defects, but the amount of clear you leave behind may not be enough to hold up over the future and could lead to paint failure because there's just not enough left over the color coat.

That's where judgment and value of the results comes into play and only you can make those calls.

[Override]

Re: too much product

yah, i don't know how deep the scratches go and i am not trying to get the deep ones out. the job is only for re-sale, but also some learning and experimentation for myself too. It's on my Father in law's car that he is going to sell, and when he got his new car, the stealership would not even take it on a trade, so it ain't worth much to start with and no real risk and making a mistake on polishing with a cutting compound. The paint and look of the car was REALLY bad to start with.

Anyways, I checked and the pad i have is the 7006 cutting pad that i am using with the 85/83 . then i am following up with a polishing pad ( no nMeg's ) with d151 and leaving it at that stage. The pad that i destroyed was a lake country mild cutting orange pad . I don't care for the lake country ones because of the little pockets on the pad, hold too much product. I think i prefer the flat ones like Meg's and other brands.... still trying to find my favorite kind.

I might follow that up with a speed glaze and a finishing pad if i have time, but it is not required.

I am going to work at it a bit more tonight and take some more pictures of exactly how much product i am using, size of area and stages of the breakdown and post those, just to make sure that i understand it as you all do.

As for a wool pad for a DA... This might work? I asked the supply for more details on it.

http://www.eshine.ca/foamed_wool_polishingbuffing_pad-435.php?cat=28

thanks again.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: too much product

Definitely a good idea to clean a car up before selling it as people go a lot by looks, don't forget to dress the tires, vacuum the interior and all the rest of the simple things you can do... If the steering wheel is dirty, be sure to clean it as anyone that test drives the car will have to touch it and you don't want them grabbing a dirty steering wheel to be one of their first impressions about a car.

Good luck and update this thread on what you find out about the wool pad for the flex as others may find that useful.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: too much product

here is what i did to one of my pads after using the flex for about 6 hours straight... i guess it should take a break...

broken pad: too much heat from the polisher, not from the product side. time to order a new one.

That's a heck of a long time to be using a single pad, even if you were cleaning on the fly. Having several pads on hand for a project like this is always a good idea, and if you talk to guys like Joe at Superior Shine, Kevin Brown, Nick Chapman, etc they'll tell you they use several pads during the course of a full project.

[Override]

Re: too much product

that was not 6 hours on a single pad, several pads using different products, it was 6 hours using the flex itself.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: too much product

that was not 6 hours on a single pad, several pads using different products, it was 6 hours using the flex itself.

Gotcha, it just sort of read like that pad was used for that length of time. That pad does look to be totally saturated with product - another reason why I thought it had been used for 6 hours! So to your original question (and the title of this thread) - Too Much Product - it sure looks that way.

[Override]

Re: too much product

ok.... so, here is an update. went with less product as i figured i knew this before i even started this thread, but lets see what you think of this.

step 1 - white polishing pad with 83 ( used a polishing pad because i destroyed my cutting pad )



Then spread it around



Then work it for a couple minutes until it looked like this: Now that wiped off really easy, as i expected it too... and the result was better too.



sorry, i forgot to take a "result" shot after i removed the residue....

but here is a reflection shot of that same trunk after i was all done. after the 83, was a same pad with d 151.