Frustrated out of my mind..

[Silverado12]

I'm working on an '07 Black Chevy Tahoe right now that has what I'd call moderate swirl marks and quite a few light scratches. I'm tackling the job with my new Flex XC VRG 3401 with the Cross Cut pads from ADS. The surface is completely prepped and has been clayed. Using the white polishing pad with M80, I started out on the hood in a 16x16 test spot to check my combo. I had the Flex on the 3.5 speed setting and after removing product with a microfiber, I pulled it outside. The paint was more reflective, but it didn't even touch the swirls. Pulled it back inside and tried the light orange cutting pad with M83 at the 4 speed on the same test spot. Pulled it outside again....the swirls were just barely diminished (maybe 5%).

So, I stepped up to the LC wool pad and M105 (having no experience prior). Tried out the combo on my test spot, and while I couldn't see the pre-existing swirls anymore, there were thousands of new swirls that I knew had been instilled from the pad and the paint was hazed pretty bad. I went back to the M83 w/ orange pad and did three applications, and while the hazing and marring from the pad were removed, the swirls that I had been fighting since the very beginning are still in the finish.....What gives?? I wish I could get some pictures, but my xenon is dead and the overcast CA sky doesn't allow me to get any shots.

I see all kinds of pictures on this site of what can be achieved with a simple G110, W-8006, M80 combo, and yet when I try it out, my results appear as though I did nothing at all...and the swirls I'm tackling aren't even that deep!!! GM seems to have a clear coat that resists all polishing compounds, haha. I'm working in small areas, I'm using a decent amount of product (1 ring around the pad), I'm using all the techniques I've learned from this site, and I'm cleaning my foam pads the best I can; the Flex is too powerful for the traditional cleaning method of pressing it against a towel and turning on the polisher. Since I feel as though I'm doing everything correct, it is extremely frustrating to see no progress after hours of polishing. I'm signed up for a detailing class next month down in Irvine and hopefully I can learn something down there.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Frustrated out of my mind..

Could all be related to the tool and pad to product combinations...

Do you have a PC type tool?
How about a rotary?

I've found newer GM paints to all be on the harder versus softer side yet very prone to micro-marring or hazing.

[InfiniteDetail]

Re: Frustrated out of my mind..

I had the same problem. Turned out I was using sub-par microfiber towels to remove the polish and they were remarring the finish.

I got some Supreme Shine towels from ADS and Viola! Perfect Results!

Drove me absolutely nuts, so I know how you feel!

Also - how much experience do you have with the Flex? In my experience, technique has a LOT to do with the end results.

[Silverado12]

Re: Frustrated out of my mind..

Could all be related to the tool and pad to product combinations...

Do you have a PC type tool?
How about a rotary?

I've found newer GM paints to all be on the harder versus softer side yet very prone to micro-marring or hazing.

I own a G100 and I've got a bunch of W-8006 pads. The problem is that even after multiple applications with a more aggressive product like M-83, the swirls are still there. The G100 would always bog down so easily at the slightest amount of pressure that I bought myself a Flex; the security of using a DA but with plenty of power to avoid bogging down. I do not own a rotary nor do I have any desire to use one for fear of doing more harm than good. I'm using proven Meguiars products with the Flex, so the weak link has to be my cross cut pads. I would use W-8006 pads, but the velcro backing isn't large enough for the Flex. I'll try and get some Lake Country pads, but I'm afraid of the CCS pads after you brought up this excellent point a while back.

The little pockets that hold product in all likelihood are keeping the product that builds-up inside of these cavities keep the diminishing abrasives from breaking down at the same time the diminishing abrasives that are being worked against the finish in the flat portions. This means in a way you're never sure if "all" the product has broken down because portions of it are trapped in these pockets.

Don't know if that would make buffing more difficult but you want to be sure you're not leaving horrible swirls due to this issue.

I had the same problem. Turned out I was using sub-par microfiber towels to remove the polish and they were remarring the finish.

I got some Supreme Shine towels from ADS and Viola! Perfect Results!

Drove me absolutely nuts, so I know how you feel!

Also - how much experience do you have with the Flex? In my experience, technique has a LOT to do with the end results.

I'm using Supreme Shines to remove product, so I think I'm safe. I've used my same towels on a swirl free GM truck and they left the finish flawless. I'm a rookie with the Flex, although I logged in a good three hours today and got a feel for the tool.

[InfiniteDetail]

Re: Frustrated out of my mind..

You mentioned you are using 1 ring of product around the pad. Try using 2 or 3 pea sized drops instead. In my experience a full ring around the pad for a PC is way too much and gums up the pad.

I had the same issues when I first started out with my PC. I was using too much product. When I used the 2-3 pea sized drops, I suddenly got the excellent results that everyone else was posting.

I've never used a flex, but have you tried using the "Cleaning the pad on the fly" technique with it? I use that technique with my rotary occasionally and it's fine.

[Silverado12]

Re: Frustrated out of my mind..

You mentioned you are using 1 ring of product around the pad. Try using 2 or 3 pea sized drops instead. In my experience a full ring around the pad for a PC is way too much and gums up the pad.

I had the same issues when I first started out with my PC. I was using too much product. When I used the 2-3 pea sized drops, I suddenly got the excellent results that everyone else was posting.

I've never used a flex, but have you tried using the "Cleaning the pad on the fly" technique with it? I use that technique with my rotary occasionally and it's fine.

Thanks for all the tips. I'm gonna go back to work on it in the morning and I'll try using much less product. It does seem as though the amount of product sitting on the paint could be restricting the actual polishing action of the pad itself. Man, I really hope this has been my problem all along because I'm sick of not getting results!!

I did try to clean my pad on the fly, but the power of the tool wanted to rip the towel out of my hand. I'll try gripping the pad itself a little firmer and hopefully it'll work for me.

[roushstage2]

Re: Frustrated out of my mind..

The G100 would always bog down so easily at the slightest amount of pressure

That right there sounds wrong...

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Frustrated out of my mind..

Your issues sound similar to what I enoutered with a newer black 760i BMW. It was a nightmare...the only way I could get the swirls out was to induce massive amounts of tiny cross-cutting dashes...not quite hazing, but distinct, short, straight lines.

I too was using the FLEX and I tried everything in my arsenal from PFW with Powergloss or M105, to Orange with the same products, to orange with 83, SIP, or 106ff, to white with SIP, 83, and 106ff.

Longest detail of my life

At any rate, good luck and keep us posted. I wish I had a better answer for you, but my only suggestion is to really crank up the speed- try running it at 5 or 6. the FLEX does well up there for defect removal.

[Silverado12]

Re: Frustrated out of my mind..

Your issues sound similar to what I enoutered with a newer black 760i BMW. It was a nightmare...the only way I could get the swirls out was to induce massive amounts of tiny cross-cutting dashes...not quite hazing, but distinct, short, straight lines.

I too was using the FLEX and I tried everything in my arsenal from PFW with Powergloss or M105, to Orange with the same products, to orange with 83, SIP, or 106ff, to white with SIP, 83, and 106ff.

Longest detail of my life

At any rate, good luck and keep us posted. I wish I had a better answer for you, but my only suggestion is to really crank up the speed- try running it at 5 or 6. the FLEX does well up there for defect removal.

"Massive amounts of tiny cross-cutting dashes". EXACTLY!! It seems like no matter what pad/product combo I try to remove the swirls, the paint leaves those nasty dashes everywhere. It's a nightmare!! Although I think I finally found a solution after hours of trial and error.

The only product, pad combo that was capable of successfully cutting through the swirls was M105 w/ LC wool pad. I do not like the combo, as it dusts like no other and is very difficult to remove, but the cut of M105 is the only thing capable of removing the defects. I then have to follow it up with M83 and orange cutting pad to remove the cross-cutting dashes left by M105, then M80 or M09 with W-8006 to try and smooth out the finish, plus my eventual two coats of wax. This is ALOT, I repeat, ALOT of work to try and perform on an SUV like a Tahoe. I'm gonna postpone the detail until this weekend and I'm praying that we can get some clear skies in CA so I can check my results in the sun.

As far as speed on the Flex, I'm slowly learning. I started off slow in the 3-4 range due to its increased power from the G100, but I'm realizing that cranking up the speed to the 5-6 range really makes it polish smoother and it seems to be the sweet spot on the Flex. My only complaint are these cross cut pads; they want to skip across the paint and the cross cut surface seems to result in uneven polish distribution.

[SHYNEMAN123]

Re: Frustrated out of my mind..

Try Premoisten Your Foam Pads With #34 Final Inspection, Dont Over Do It Or You Will Splatter. Also Try Not To Buff The Product Dry Before Removing With Micro.
The Key To Getting Swirls Out Is Not To Put Them In In The First Place Technique Is Everything And A Trick I Follow Is After I Buff With Wool I Always Use The Same Product With Foam And Than Switch Up To Polish And Lighter Cut Foam.