M80 VS High Price Competitor

[Tim Lingor]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

So I can have a logical discussion and be called names, and you tell me to push away from the key board? Seriously?

Todd,

We have asked you nicely to let this go...now we will enforce the MOL Forum Rules...

Mike reminded everyone of the Forum Rules earlier. Asking someone to push away means that things have gone far enough and now it needs to end. I just finished posting that pointing fingers, etc for "who started it" is irrelevant. Everyone who posts to MOL needs to respect each other's opinions. The Forum Rules which are pertinent in this situation are listed below.

You were asked to push away and you did not. If people are to participate with our Forum, they are expected to abide by the rules.


Meguiar's Online Member Rules

1. No personal attacks toward members or non-members will be tolerated.

2. No arguing with Moderators or Administrators.

3. You are welcome to disagree but you must be polite.

4. No bashing any company or their products. No bashing other people. If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all.

Tim

[TH0001]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

So I can have a logical discussion and be called names, and you tell me to push away from the key board? Seriously?

[Tim Lingor]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

Personally I feel this post is an attack. Since I am the only one on here using Zaino as a bench mark, and I have feel I have been very fair and object in my views, I take the Zealot comment personally.

I have alway been very fair and balanced in my views and point out the short commings of Zaino or any product (which I use quite a few different products, which does not fit the definition of a "Zealot"). I understand my view may not be the most popular but to call it biased is really overstepping the line.

If my goal was to start a debate I would not have choosen my words so carefully and tried to walk a fine line, though I do acknowledge that I did take this thread off topic. If you choose to view my opinion as biased or wrong, thats fine, but lets not call names please.

Back to the thread, M80 is an amazing product that will produce consistent and amazing results no matter how it is applied.

Todd, it is time to push away from the keyboard...

Once more, bantering or pointing fingers is not going to happen on MOL. Once a warning has been issued, it is time to let it go and move on.

Thanks!

Tim

[TH0001]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

Tim nailed it....The word "debate" is the key word...MOL is a safe place for "friendly discussions" in the right forum / thread....Everyone has seen / participated in these before



No reason to feel that way....

Mike

I'm sorry if this thread turned into a debate, I felt that it was a friendly discussion and see no where (execpt for the previous name calling) where anybody has stepped out of line? Aren't open and passionate discussions generally for the good of all? Personally I am glad for the clarification that you provided on this thread think its great that somebody so high in an organization would provide information. I have learned from this thread, so I apologize if I have caused a debate but am grateful for your insight Mike (and everybody else).

[TH0001]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

MIKE I feel that I owe you an apology. I'm sorry that I started this thread I should have known better.
I have seen this happen a hundred times on other forums when someone states and opinion on any detailing product the Zaino Zealots turn it into a Zaino hype marathon.
This thread has been taken faaar off topic.
If anyone reads my original post I made no mention of NXT or any LSP.
I just stated my experience with M-80 and that was cleverly turned into a Zaino is better than NXT debate.
I believe the more you kick a turd the more it will stink so I will refrain from posting in this thread again.

Personally I feel this post is an attack. Since I am the only one on here using Zaino as a bench mark, and I have feel I have been very fair and object in my views, I take the Zealot comment personally.

I have alway been very fair and balanced in my views and point out the short commings of Zaino or any product (which I use quite a few different products, which does not fit the definition of a "Zealot"). I understand my view may not be the most popular but to call it biased is really overstepping the line.

If my goal was to start a debate I would not have choosen my words so carefully and tried to walk a fine line, though I do acknowledge that I did take this thread off topic. If you choose to view my opinion as biased or wrong, thats fine, but lets not call names please.

Back to the thread, M80 is an amazing product that will produce consistent and amazing results no matter how it is applied.

[TH0001]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

NXT or NXT 2.0 ???

Curious if those time frames would change ?



Mike

Don't know, the only time I used NXT 2.0 I got some streaking. I haven't really been able to play with it yet.

[Mike Pennington]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

But if you are here to debate one brand versus another, this is not the thread, nor the Forum.

Tim nailed it....The word "debate" is the key word...MOL is a safe place for "friendly discussions" in the right forum / thread....Everyone has seen / participated in these before

MIKE I feel that I owe you an apology.

No reason to feel that way....

Mike

[Tim Lingor]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

Time to chime in...

The original topic had nothing to do with Zaino and out of respect for both Sal and Meguiar's, let's stop the comparisons as this thread had nothing to do with it in the first place.

If you wish to comment on the original poster's comments about M80, please do so. But if you are here to debate one brand versus another, this is not the thread, nor the Forum.

Thanks
Tim

[Black Bart]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

MIKE I feel that I owe you an apology. I'm sorry that I started this thread I should have known better.
I have seen this happen a hundred times on other forums when someone states and opinion on any detailing product the Zaino Zealots turn it into a Zaino hype marathon.
This thread has been taken faaar off topic.
If anyone reads my original post I made no mention of NXT or any LSP.
I just stated my experience with M-80 and that was cleverly turned into a Zaino is better than NXT debate.
I believe the more you kick a turd the more it will stink so I will refrain from posting in this thread again.

[ZoranC]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

... my point is that even if a wax is said to last 6-12 months, I find that if you are not waxing/maintaining you finish often (say once a month) that the paint accumulates more surface contaminants...regardless of how well it beads water.

Exactly

Last step is maintenance, and if surface is maintained as it should be then point of longevity becomes moot because protection will be renewed before it's longevity comes into a play.

[Mike Pennington]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

My example would be to compare Zaino to NXT. In terms of looks, it will always come down to the owner. IMO, both products look great initially and the look is very close (as are most LSP's on perfectly prepped paint, IMO). However 3 weeks out (in my experience in the Florida climate) NXT looks very flat and dead compared to Zaino, it is not even close. Zaino will retain its initial look for atleast 3-4 months, and IME, as much as 6 months.

NXT or NXT 2.0 ???

Curious if those time frames would change ?



Mike

[RaskyR1]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

Sorry...I used spell check on my post and went to edit it and it got messed up....I hate this 1 minute edit rule!!!

I like this thread.

I actually gave my Zaino away!

For me it was the hassle of mixing in the little bottles, cleaning the bottles, knowing what was left over is waste, and it was not as easy to apply and remove as most OTC waxes.

I actually applied a coat of Z5 and 2 coats of Z2 to my girls Accord which was properly prepped to be free of defects. 6 months later it still beaded water and look pretty good. I was fairly impressed. The downside was all of the surface contaminants that had bonded themselves to the surface of the paint. The car felt like sand paper!

During this time I washed and waxed my car as I normally would. My car was still 99% free of any surface contaminants!

So while the Zaino still seemed to be beading water whose paint was in better condition after the 6 months....


I know there are lots of variables to this comparison but my point is that even if a wax is said to last 6-12 months, I find that if you are not waxing/maintaining you finish often (say once a month) that the paint accumulates more surface contaminants...regardless of how well it beads water.


Just my $.02

Rasky

[RaskyR1]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

I like this thread.

I actually gave my Zaino kit away!


Rasky

[ZoranC]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

In your example you don't include human nature. Most people will pay double the money if they only have to do it half the times.

I think I do account for human nature of average buyer in my post. I feel you might be subconciously speaking taking into account people you usually deal with and vast majority of your clients can not be exactly called average Joe Schmoe.

Also for them price of just waxing the car does not include just the price of wax, it includes price of retaining detailer's service so yes, in that case durability will matter. It is unlikely they will personally wax the car themselves.

Majority of people though will wax their own car and do care what it costs them in the end.

[3Fitty]

Re: M80 VS High Price Competitor

Also, you are using personally preferance (stating that, in a factual tone, NXT looks better then Zaino) to justify your arguement. Many people feel each way about the different products. Many NXT users will tell NXT looks better, many Zaino users will tell you that Zaino looks better... Both parties are correct in the fact that they are saying what looks better to them (which is probably why they selected the particular product). Zaino is more difficult to use (its comprimse) but lasts for 4-5 times as much (Meguiars comprimise) IME.

I think it is pretty clear the "looks" is subjective criteria. I wasn't trying to suggest it was fact, only that in my personal experience, I thought the NXT gave me the best looks.

However, I think other items also lend themselves to subjectivity (ie: durability). How do we know Zaino lasts for 6 months? Is it because someone says it, or because there is still beading or because they have a wax measuring stick? I mean to be REALLY satisified I'd have to test it myself in the real world.

Half my car with NXT 2.0, half with Zaino. Put together a focus group to evaluate looks and "apparent" durability.

I would take measure of those opinions in terms of a numeric "factor".

I would then use this factor in a formula with the cost of NXT vs. the time spent putting it on and taking it off into the equation to determine which was the better product. I'm obviously being facetious, but the point is there is so much subjectivity to it all, I'd just rather save my money with Meg's and keep hearing the compliments.