Questions...

[Marc08EX]

Ok, I will detail a car probably next week or so.. It's a '86 car so the paint isn't in the perfect condition.. It has a lot of swirls and the paint isn't that glossy anymore... It still has some reflection though. Here is what I'm planning to do to it.

Wash the car.
Clay the entire car.
Apply #83 with DA.
Apply #7 with DA.
Apply NXT with DA.

What do you guys think about the products and order I'm going to use these?

Another question, what are the differences between #82, #81, #80 and #7? They all seem to be like some kind of a polishing product.. Please correct me if I'm wrong.. I know the #80+ has some abrasiveness and cleaning agents.. What about #7?

I've also read Mike Philips's advice on how to use #83 and #7 but I'm a little confused about them..

On the #83, the advice said that let the product diminish or something like that.. It means that I should keep the DA running slowly until the product can't be seem in the paint? It also said that the opposite side of the direction you're moving the DA should still be wet.. Well, if you want the product to go away while applying it with the DA, how will you know if it's still wet? Also, how are you going to estimate 5lbs of pressure force? I just don't want to press it to hard and damage the paint or something..

Ok, on the #7, I've read Mike's advice on autopia.org on how to properly remove the product.. I understand that it shouldn't be removed as a wax and you should go around the car around 2-3 times removing the product applied little by little.. I didn't really understand that process.. There was a special word for it.. I forgot it though and couldn't find the link anymore...

TIA.

[jfelbab]

Re: Questions...

Originally posted by Bri
Ok, I will detail a car probably next week or so.. It's a '86 car so the paint isn't in the perfect condition.. It has a lot of swirls and the paint isn't that glossy anymore... It still has some reflection though. Here is what I'm planning to do to it.

Wash the car.
Clay the entire car.
Apply #83 with DA.
Apply #7 with DA.
Apply NXT with DA.

What do you guys think about the products and order I'm going to use these?

Another question, what are the differences between #82, #81, #80 and #7? They all seem to be like some kind of a polishing product.. Please correct me if I'm wrong.. I know the #80+ has some abrasiveness and cleaning agents.. What about #7?

I've also read Mike Philips's advice on how to use #83 and #7 but I'm a little confused about them..

On the #83, the advice said that let the product diminish or something like that.. It means that I should keep the DA running slowly until the product can't be seem in the paint? It also said that the opposite side of the direction you're moving the DA should still be wet.. Well, if you want the product to go away while applying it with the DA, how will you know if it's still wet? Also, how are you going to estimate 5lbs of pressure force? I just don't want to press it to hard and damage the paint or something..

Ok, on the #7, I've read Mike's advice on autopia.org on how to properly remove the product.. I understand that it shouldn't be removed as a wax and you should go around the car around 2-3 times removing the product applied little by little.. I didn't really understand that process.. There was a special word for it.. I forgot it though and couldn't find the link anymore...

TIA.

I think your choice of products should produce great results.

80, 81, 82, 83, 7

#7 and #81 are pure polishes and are much alike. They contain no abrasives. They use oils and fillers to produce a wet look on your finish. The other polishes have diminishing abrasives and are used to remove swirls and fine scratches. #83 is the most aggressive and #80 and #82 are less aggressive. #80's abrasives break down faster than any of the others.

#7 or #81 - Apply (as thin as possible) to a panel at a time. It is not necessary to work this product until it's almost dry like the others. This product will skin over and you want to remove it before it dries. I use a 100% cotton towel to remove the skin and then remove the rest of the residue with a micro fiber towel.

You should check out these videos.

Mike has written some how-to articles here.

[Marc08EX]

Thanks for replying jfelbab... That's what I was kinda wondering.. What's removing the "skin" of the polish? I really didn't get that no matter how hard I try to understand it.. I read the article like 3 times and I still didn't get it..

Also, I've read earlier that it's not a good idea to use NXT Tech Wax after using #7 because it wouldn't stick or saturate in the paint? Also, why does everybody recommend topping NXT with a second coat of NXT after 24 hours?

TIA. I hope Mike Philips would reply to this thread.

[Lost Pup]

Originally posted by Bri
Also, why does everybody recommend topping NXT with a second coat of NXT after 24 hours?

To achieve complete coverage and maximum product life.

My take on it anyway.

[jfelbab]

Originally posted by Bri
Thanks for replying jfelbab... That's what I was kinda wondering.. What's removing the "skin" of the polish? I really didn't get that no matter how hard I try to understand it.. I read the article like 3 times and I still didn't get it..

Also, I've read earlier that it's not a good idea to use NXT Tech Wax after using #7 because it wouldn't stick or saturate in the paint? Also, why does everybody recommend topping NXT with a second coat of NXT after 24 hours?

TIA. I hope Mike Philips would reply to this thread.

As #7 dries it forms a skin on the surface. It's still wet under the skin. Using a cotton towel breaks up and removes this skin easily and then buffing the remaining residue goes very quickly and easily most of the time. When applying #7 less it better.

I've also asked Mike about the effects of applying NXT over oily polishes like #7 since I know that certain synthetic polymer sealants wont bond or cure (cross-link) on an oily surface. He might provide a technical answer here. My findings are that the oils left by #7 are not a hinderance to the performance or appearance of NXT.

NXT usually looks better after a second coat because you wind up with a more uniform coating.

[Marc08EX]

So, which is better to use? #7 or #82? It's just that a lot of people are using #82 as a polish after applying #83..

So, I would have to remove the dried "skin" of #7 and it would still have some oils left out? And that's what I'm going to come back and polish out?

[jfelbab]

Originally posted by Bri
So, which is better to use? #7 or #82? It's just that a lot of people are using #82 as a polish after applying #83..

So, I would have to remove the dried "skin" of #7 and it would still have some oils left out? And that's what I'm going to come back and polish out?

#7 and #82 differ in a few important ways. #7 is a pure polish. As such it contains no abrasives and doesn't remove swirl marks. It does have oils and fillers to hide light swirls and give that wet look.

The reason many use #82 after using #83 is that these two polishes contain abrasives. As such they remove some of the finish while polishing. They essentially flatten out the surface where the swirls or scratch are. Since #83 is pretty aggressive, it occasionally leaves fine scratches in it's wake on some paint. This is not too noticeable on light colored cars but on black it is sometimes apparent that the finish looks hazy after application. #82 has finer abrasives and it serves to remove the fine scratches that make the finish look hazy.

The use of #7 becomes apparent when you try it. You will notice that it doesn't dry like a wax but forms this thin skin. Wipe the skin off and it takes most of the residue away. Buff the remaining oils and you wind up with a wet look.

[Don]

Originally posted by Bri
That's what I was kinda wondering.. What's removing the "skin" of the polish? I really didn't get that no matter how hard I try to understand it.. I read the article like 3 times and I still didn't get it..

I think it was Mike that put it this way: Think of how a bowl of pudding will develop a 'skin' over the top. That's about the same thing as the #7 is doing.

[Marc08EX]

I've already tried #7 before on a silver car and on a grey car.. It wasn't hard to remove even letting it dry for an hour.. I don't know why.. It seems to be still wet even after an hour.. So, #82 would be a better choice so that it would remove the finer swirls/scratches produced by the #83 DACP? I thought that by using #83, you would almost eliminate all swirls since it's pretty aggressive to start with.. It would flatten out the paint with no problems.

So, #80 is comparable with #82? It's just that #80 is more abrasive? And #81 can be compared with #7 since both of them don't have any cleaners and only contains pure polish and polishing oils?

Thanks for replying jfelbab! I appreciate your help!

[jfelbab]

Originally posted by Bri
I've already tried #7 before on a silver car and on a grey car.. It wasn't hard to remove even letting it dry for an hour.. I don't know why.. It seems to be still wet even after an hour.. So, #82 would be a better choice so that it would remove the finer swirls/scratches produced by the #83 DACP? I thought that by using #83, you would almost eliminate all swirls since it's pretty aggressive to start with.. It would flatten out the paint with no problems.

So, #80 is comparable with #82? It's just that #80 is more abrasive? And #81 can be compared with #7 since both of them don't have any cleaners and only contains pure polish and polishing oils?

Thanks for replying jfelbab! I appreciate your help!

The goal is to use the least abrasive product necessary to remove the defect(s). After a while you get a feel for whether you can get rid of the defects with #80 or #82, or if you need to get more aggressive and use #83. You should begin with the least aggressive product and if after a couple tries the blemish is not removed then step up.

#83 is pretty good at removing swirls but it also can introduce micromarring into the finish in the process. When using #83 it is also important to work it until it is almost dry. This will reduce any chances for micromaring to occur as the process of polishing breaks down the abrasives into finer and finer particle size as it is worked. FWIW, I always use #82 after using #83.

The abrasiveness of #82 and #80 seem about equal to me. The abrasives in #80 break down quicker.

You observation of #7 and #81 is valid. I believe #7 was developed initially for single stage finishes and #81 is a more recent product developed specifically for clear-coated paints. Either works well enough on clear coat paint.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Bri
I've already tried #7 before on a silver car and on a grey car.. It wasn't hard to remove even letting it dry for an hour.. I don't know why.. It seems to be still wet even after an hour..

The reason it doesn't dry is because it's a non-drying oil, it's not supposed to dry. Waxes dry.

Meguiar's pure polishes are for creating gloss, reflections and a wet-look on paint. They offer no protection either, that again is the role of a wax, or paint protectant.

So, #82 would be a better choice so that it would remove the finer swirls/scratches produced by the #83 DACP? I thought that by using #83, you would almost eliminate all swirls since it's pretty aggressive to start with.. It would flatten out the paint with no problems.

Everything is relative. To say #83 is aggressive depends on what you're comparing it to. If you compare it to #7 Show Car Glaze, then yes it's aggressive. If you compare it to #84 Compound Power Cleaner, then it's not very aggressive at all. In the bigger view of Compounds, Paint Cleaners, Cleaner/Polishes and Pure Polishes, #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish is not very aggressive at all. It is very safe while being very effective.

So, #80 is comparable with #82? It's just that #80 is more abrasive? And #81 can be compared with #7 since both of them don't have any cleaners and only contains pure polish and polishing oils?

Just to point out, when you say #80 is more abrasive, it makes the product sound like it will scratch and scour the surface, which it wont'. Meguiar's pioneered diminishing abrasives in the automotive world, since 1901 when they first came out with cleaning products for furniture. If you were to shake-up a bottle of #80 Speed Glaze and then pour some out into your fingers, I would challenge you to feel anything that you could label abrasive. Most people would feel this product and say it feels like a rich, smooth skin lotion.


I notice you live in Arizona? Are you signed up to go to the Meguiar's Detailing Clinic on the 28th?


Meguiar's Detailing Clinic in Arizona - August 28th

If not, you ought to try to go, Mike Pennington, the Director of Training here at Meguiar's and it will be a very educational clinic.

Mike

[Mike Phillips]

Here is something I wrote for the new Meguiar's FAQ,

7. What's the difference between polish and wax? (Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle)

There is a lot of information about Meguiar's cleaner/polishes and pure polishes in the above FAQ Question and Answer. Click on the link and read the information. I think it will help you to understand the difference between compounds, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes, pure polishes and paint protectants.

Mike

[Marc08EX]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Everything is relative. To say #83 is aggressive depends on what you're comparing it to. If you compare it to #7 Show Car Glaze, then yes it's aggressive. If you compare it to #84 Compound Power Cleaner, then it's not very aggressive at all. In the bigger view of Compounds, Paint Cleaners, Cleaner/Polishes and Pure Polishes, #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish is not very aggressive at all. It is very safe while being very effective.

Well, I was just referring to the abrasiveness scale found on the left side of the gallon tanks of the products so I would say everything is relative to 0.

Just to point out, when you say #80 is more abrasive, it makes the product sound like it will scratch and scour the surface, which it wont'. Meguiar's pioneered diminishing abrasives in the automotive world, since 1901 when they first came out with cleaning products for furniture. If you were to shake-up a bottle of #80 Speed Glaze and then pour some out into your fingers, I would challenge you to feel anything that you could label abrasive. Most people would feel this product and say it feels like a rich, smooth skin lotion.

Well, again, it just said on the scale that #80 is 4 on the scale and #82 is only a 3.. I know it wouldn't feel abrasive on the skin since probably everything chemically happens at a molecular level...

Thanks for your help Mike and yes, I am signed up for the class this coming saturday.. I couldn't wait.

So, would this be a better alternative?

Wash the car and dry properly
Clay the whole car
Apply #83 DACP with DA
Apply #82 with DA
Apply #81 or #7 with DA
Apply NXT x2 (24 hours apart)

Thanks for your time guys!

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Bri
So, would this be a better alternative?

Wash the car and dry properly
Clay the whole car
Apply #83 DACP with DA
Apply #82 with DA
Apply #81 or #7 with DA
Apply NXT x2 (24 hours apart)

Thanks for your time guys!

Yes, I would add this,

Speed setting for #83 = 5.0
Speed setting for #82 = 4.0 to 4.5
Speed setting for #81 = 3.0

For the above use the W-8006 foam polishing pad. For the NXT Tech Wax, if you apply using the PC, then use the W-9006 finishing pad on a setting of 2.0 to 3.0

Apply the second coat of NXT about 12 hours later, you can wait 24 hours if you want but all of the polymers should be fully set-up with in a 12 hour window of time.

Then, take some pictures and share them with the forum!

Hope this helps...

Mike

[Marc08EX]

Can I use #7 instead of #81 for the mean time? Would they produce the same results? Or #81 is really a better product that #7?

Thanks Mike. I hope I would be able to learn how slow to move the DA when I go to the clinic. This stuff is addicting.. Hahaha! I just wanna learn everything before starting out so that I wouldn't have too much mistakes. I still need to learn and see what you mean by working the product in, go slowly as if it's almost gone..

Thanks for the help!