Help with M80 - How long should it work?

[cv_soccer]

I have a 06 VW GTI (see below) and I have tried to use M80 to get rid of some very minor swirl but I think that I am rushing it and not giving it time to work. I know that M80 has diminishing abrasives, and you need to work it until it turns translucent but on average how long is that? Also do the abrasives breakdown faster when a little more pressure is applied?


I do the larger areas with my PC7424, and around the ‘turns’ I go slower and do those by hand but the same question remains.

On average how long should I work M80 ??? All I am looking for is a SWAG because either I’m not letting the product do its work or the paint on my GTI is like iron!!!

[roushstage2]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

It depends on the ambient temperature, paint temperature, the amount of product (too much, too little) and the speed it is being worked at.

You should apply full pressure on the first pass or two, then lessen up and finesse the finish on your last couple of passes.

[cv_soccer]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

It depends on the ambient temperature, paint temperature, the amount of product (too much, too little) and the speed it is being worked at.

You should apply full pressure on the first pass or two, then lessen up and finesse the finish on your last couple of passes.

I understand about the 'ambient’ temperature, and we also need to take into account the humidity. Regarding how much I use I try to match the amount of product on the pads as Mike used when he was working on that 1960 black corvette on his DVD. I will just have to take pictures of the pads so that you can see it for yourself.

[Sprzout]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

Well...I seem to think that the new paint jobs on most European cars are harder than the paint jobs here in America, because my dad's BMW has some hard paint on it, and I've heard that Audi paint is pretty tough as well. It might be that your paint is just really hard paint and the 80 isn't cutting it.

Here's what I learned from Mike in a Saturday clinic:

When you are trying to use M80 with the PC, you can be quick about getting the product spread out in an area about the size of a Meg's MF towel (folded in half) - basically about 1/4 - 1/3 of the area of the hood of your car. Then, using about 15 lbs of down force on the PC (which is NOT much!) move SLOWLY in a cross-hatch pattern across the material. That is, go once vertical, overlapping 50%, then go horizontal, overlapping 50%. If it still looks white and not clear, make a second cross-hatch pass, again, SLOWLY. Hopefully that clears up some confusion for you...

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

M80 can be worked a surprisingly long time and a good indicator is if the product is still wet to the touch in the area immediately behind the polisher as it moves across the paint, you can continue to polish.

Regarding paint hardness on European cars: M80 on a polishing pad with my DA did NOTHING to the paint on my Crossfire - not a darn thing. I had to step up to M105 with a rotary to remove the defects. Talk about hard paint!

[roushstage2]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

I understand about the 'ambient’ temperature, and we also need to take into account the humidity. Regarding how much I use I try to match the amount of product on the pads as Mike used when he was working on that 1960 black corvette on his DVD. I will just have to take pictures of the pads so that you can see it for yourself.

Humidity, forgot that one.

It is just kind of a trial and error thing. You have to play with it and figure it out. I went used M80 one time and it took about 10 minutes to break down in a 2'x2' area. Other times, it is quicker. Sometimes slower.

[Jeepster04]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

I used it on my Jeep and it did an excellant job at removing the mild swirls.

The time it takes to break down really varies. Its usually broken down after 4-5 passes with very slow arm movement.

[Sprzout]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

M80 can be worked a surprisingly long time and a good indicator is if the product is still wet to the touch in the area immediately behind the polisher as it moves across the paint, you can continue to polish.

Regarding paint hardness on European cars: M80 on a polishing pad with my DA did NOTHING to the paint on my Crossfire - not a darn thing. I had to step up to M105 with a rotary to remove the defects. Talk about hard paint!

Hmm...I thought you didn't want polish to dry out, though, because it loses its lubricity and can be damaging to the paint? No worries, though...I tend to cut it back a little and err on the side of caution, and use a couple of polish attempts, sort of like when Mike does his ScratchX scratch removal. I do that mainly because I'm paranoid about dry polishing the car and instilling more scratches/swirls in the car!

As for European car paint hardness...well...TECHNICALLY...It's not surprising that your Crossfire has hard paint. I mean, that car was built under the DaimlerChrysler umbrella, and Daimler had some high standards for the Crossfire. From what I understand, they used a lot of Mercedes parts to build it, so I wouldn't be surprised if they used Mercedes paint processes to paint that sucker too. And if not, well, it makes a heckuva tall tale for why your Crossfire's paint is so hard!

[yalerd]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

How large of an area are you tackling?
You can reduce your area of work and see if you have better results.

If you have the same results, and you think you are doing everything correctly then I suggest moving to a more aggressive product like #83

Keep us updated and good luck

[Nappers]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

..... M80 on a polishing pad with my DA did NOTHING to the paint on my Crossfire - not a darn thing. I had to step up to M105 with a rotary to remove the defects. Talk about hard paint!

My Neon is hard as nails too! Thought it was just me, Rotary with 8006 and 83 was needed on some spots.

Mike, did you use a wool pad or experience with a foam pad such as the 8006?

Not to hijack the thread, I am still learning too

Aaron

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

Hmm...I thought you didn't want polish to dry out, though, because it loses its lubricity and can be damaging to the paint? No worries, though...I tend to cut it back a little and err on the side of caution, and use a couple of polish attempts, sort of like when Mike does his ScratchX scratch removal. I do that mainly because I'm paranoid about dry polishing the car and instilling more scratches/swirls in the car!

I did not say to let the polish dry out or take it to a dry buff. I said if the polish immediately behind the path of the polisher is still wet then you can continue polishing.

As for European car paint hardness...well...TECHNICALLY...It's not surprising that your Crossfire has hard paint. I mean, that car was built under the DaimlerChrysler umbrella, and Daimler had some high standards for the Crossfire. From what I understand, they used a lot of Mercedes parts to build it, so I wouldn't be surprised if they used Mercedes paint processes to paint that sucker too. And if not, well, it makes a heckuva tall tale for why your Crossfire's paint is so hard!

A lot of Mercedes parts? Yep - it's basically a Mercedes SLK with a better looking skin! No doubt it has Mercedes Cerami-Clear paint on it as well. My '04 PT Cruiser has very nice paint, but it's extremely easy to polish out with M80 on the DA and it is very resistant to marring. I love the paint on that car!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

My Neon is hard as nails too! Thought it was just me, Rotary with 8006 and 83 was needed on some spots.

That's interesting since, as I just mentioned in my previous post, the paint on my PT is very easy to work and M80/DA brings up a beautiful finish. I've gotten great results with M80/DA on a 2005 Chrysler 300 as well. Interesting that paints used even on the Chrysler/Dodge domestics would be so different. I mean, I know the cars are built in different plants but still - you'd think there would be some commonality from the paint vendor.

Mike, did you use a wool pad or experience with a foam pad such as the 8006?

Not to hijack the thread, I am still learning too

Aaron

With M105 on the Crossfire I used a wool pad. Great results too!

[v.bartolomei]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

you cant put too much pressure and go like 1600 to 1800 rpm with yellow microfber/wool pad then yellow foam pad at 1200 rpm that should do it

[DogParkGuy]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

Get Mike's video that show him using M80 with DAPC. That will show you exactly arm speed and rotation speed of the pad.

[cv_soccer]

Re: Help with M80 - How long should it work?

How large of an area are you tackling?
You can reduce your area of work and see if you have better results.
If you have the same results, and you think you are doing everything correctly then I suggest moving to a more aggressive product like #83
Keep us updated and good luck

The area that I am working is that outlined in yellow which I woudl consider to be a small area. Switching to somethig more aggressive is an option but not my first choice.

Get Mike's video that show him using M80 with DAPC. That will show you exactly arm speed and rotation speed of the pad.

I do have one of Mike's DVD's where he is working on a 1960 Vette and have been using that as my point of reference, and I am using the same Porter Cable as he is in the video so do I apply my pressure are get more aggressive?