Clay vs Colorsanding?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

He wasn't using both clay&colorsand, just colorsand. His name is Kevin Tetz. His website is http://www.paintucation.com/. I'm in no way promoting him or his website, I just started getting into spray gun painting, and I have passed by his place and saw some interesting stuff. But I guess i'm a bit nieve because he is someone who has been at this for 30+yrs.

I just took a quick look at the website you linked to and I don't see that Kevin is doing anything different than any body shop would. In his case he's dealing with freshly sprayed paint so it needs to be color sanded (wet sanded) and then but and buffed. That's all part of the proper process when spraying new paint in order to remove orange peel - or at least reduce it - and bring up the shine of the clear coat.

If you're dealing with a factory paint job and just want to make it look as good as possible then a clay bar would be advisable. Wet sanding is not a "routine" part of the 5 Step Paint Care System and I think you're confusing polishing a factory paint job with polishing a new, fresh paint job. The video doesn't mention clay because there should be no need for it. That is, unless he has the dirtiest paint shop on the planet there will be no bonded contaminants to deal with just a couple of days after shooting the paint.

[VengeFulHemi]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

Have you tried a test spot with that combination yet? More importantly, have you tried #83 with the polishing pad, or #80 first? Also, are you using the PC or a rotary?

Tim: Glad I'm not the only one it happens to. Lol.

This is not my first time detailing or anything like that. I've been using MG-Clay&the pro line for a few yrs.Yes, I use a DA(7424). I truly believe i'm not working the stuff in enough. After so much reading, i'm tending to see a pattern. Yes, i've used 83 w/polish pad and it does the trick somewhat. Same with 80. Maybe a few applications? Thanks very much.

[onawrxhigh]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

I figure tomarrow I will clay, use my cutting pad w/#83, then #9 w/polishing pad, then the show car glaze.

If you are using the pc with a meg's 7006 pad, that is not a recommended practice by meguiars due to the fact that it could instill marring or hazing into the vehicles finish. Re-try to 83 with the 8006 polishing pad set to speed 5 and really work it into the paint, maiking sure not to go to a dry buff just so the surface is still wet and the product is almost clear in color while on the paint.

Andrew

[VengeFulHemi]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

Thats what I will do. I really do believe from all the great advise from everyone has given me, I wasn't working the products in enough. Many thanks to everyone.

[VengeFulHemi]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

Today, I used an 8006 w/83, worked the stuff in very well(2 or 3 times, like you all said, no dry buff), and still have minor swirls&scratches. I even tried w/a 8006&#83. All those combo's seem to take care oxidation and water spots, except these fine scatches&swirls. This is kind of driving me nuts. I know my paint is not destroyed or anything, but I know this stuff is very minor(I can see that with a bright flashlight against the finish) and can't seem to shake this stuff out. Should maybe I be considering a rotary polisher? Thanks everyone.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

Today, I used an 8006 w/83, worked the stuff in very well(2 or 3 times, like you all said, no dry buff), and still have minor swirls&scratches.

2 possibilities, it's either

1. The hardness or non-workability of the paint - read all the way through this and look at the pictures
PC + 83 not "Cutting" it! (The Limits of Dual Action Polisher)

2. Technique

After using the DA polisher since first starting with an Air Powered DA Sander in the 80's and now through 5 years of formal training classes here and in other states, the thing we notice the most is people have problems getting their technique spot-on.

That's why the hands-on classes are so effective and popular with people wanting to learn how to use the DA polishers.

Read through this and see if there's anything you're doing wrong.

Tips & Techniques for using the G100/PC Dual Action Polisher

After teaching hundreds of classes here at Meguiar's, there are some common mistakes most people make when trying to remove swirls and scratches with a dual action polisher. Most of them have to do with technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time
2. Move the polisher too fast over the surface
3. Too low of speed setting for removing swirls
4. Too little pressure on the head of the unit
5. Too much pressure on the head of the unit so the pad quits rotating
6. Not keeping the pad flat while working your product
7. Too much product, too little product
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough

Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Shrink your work area down, the harder the paint the smaller the area you can work. The average area should be and average of about 16" by 16" up to 20" by 20" or so. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot.
2. For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's really easy to move the polisher too quickly because the sound of the motor spinning fast has a psychological effect to for some reason want to make people move the polisher fast. Also the way most people think is that, "If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster", but it doesn't work that way.
3. When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting, again... this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the diminishing abrasives, the foam type, and the pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches. It's a leveling process that's somewhat difficult because the tool is safe/gentle while in most cases, modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints and this makes them hard to work on. This is also why people get frustrated, they don't understand paint technology, all they know is their paint swirls easy and getting the swirls out is difficult and thus frustrating.
4. For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much pressure and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
5. Just the opposite of item #4, people think that by pushing harder on the polisher they can work faster and be more aggressive, but the truth is the clutch in the tool is a safety mechanism to prevent burning and will cause the pad to stop rotating, thus less cleaning or abrading action and once in a while this will lead a person to then post on the forum something like this, "Hey my pad doesn't rotate". There needs to be a balance of enough pressure to remove defects and keep the pad rotating but yet not too much pressure as to stop the rotating action. This balance is affected by a lot of things, things like type of chemical, some chemicals provide more lubrication and the pad will spin easier, curved surfaces or any raise in body lines will tend to stop the pad from rotating. This is where experience on how to address these areas comes into play or you do the best you can and move on. It's not a perfect tool, nor a perfect system, but it's almost always better than working/cleaning by hand.
6. Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one side of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease cleaning ability.
7. Too much product over lubricates the surface and this won't allow the diminishing abrasives to do their job plus it will increase the potential for messy splatter as well as cause pad saturation. Too little product will keep the pad from rotating due to no lubrication and there won't be enough diminishing abrasives to do any work. Again it's a balance that comes with experience, or another way of saying this would be it's a balance that comes with hours of buffing out a car to learn what to do and what not to do. Information like what you're reading here is just an edge to decrease your learning curve. Hope this is helping.
8. Most people don't clean their pad often enough and most of the time the reason for this is because they don't know they're supposed to clean their pad often and they don't know how to clean their pad. Again, that's why this forum is here to help you with both of these things. You should clean your pad after every application of product or every other application of product, your choice, most of the time cleaning your pad after every other application of product works pretty well. It enables you to work clean and enables the foam pad, the polisher and the next application of fresh product too all work effectively. How to clean your pad will be addressed below sooner versus later, but not at the time of this posting. (Sorry, I'm behind a keyboard, not a video camera

The first 4 are the most common. Can't tell you how many times we hear a comment like this from someone in the garage after demonstrating the correct technique

"That's what I'm doing wrong"


The dual action polisher is a gentle tool, that's why people like it. People are afraid of machines because they're worried they're going to either instill swirls or burn through the paint. When they learn that this is pretty hard to do with this machine, so after enough research or after watching a demonstration they learn to trust it and try it.

Summary: People like the dual action polisher because it's oscillating action is safe and gentle to the surface.

Now follow me on this...
For the same reason people love the dual action polisher, (it's safe and gentle), a segment of people get frustrated with it because it won't remove all defects all the time. It won't tackle serious or deep defects quickly and easily. It won't always work on really hard paints. So for the same reason people love this tool, they also hate it, they just don't know why. Maybe after reading this post they will understand.


This is the reason this thread is so widely read and you can learn a lot from it if you'll only take the time to read through it.

PC + 83 not "Cutting" it! - The Limits of the Dual Action Polisher


Even the pictures of the paint on the white truck on the first page and the story behind it are powerful and REAL (This writer took them and did the testing with both the G100/PC and the RB).

When the G100/PC with a strong cleaner/polish like M83 and our W-8006 polishing pad doesn't remove the defects to your satisfaction or within an acceptable time limit the answer is not to get more aggressive with a more aggressive pad or chemical or both, the answer is to switch to a more powerful machine like the rotary buffer and or take the car to a Pro who knows how to use a rotary buffer, or learn to live with the defects.

Hope this helps...

[VengeFulHemi]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

Is two coats of wax necessary, or is it overkill?

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

Hey,

Two coats are recommended to ensure uniform coverage. So in my opinion, is it necessary..no...but the benefits of the uniform appearance leading to a better finish, I would encourage you to do the 2 coats!

Tim

[VengeFulHemi]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

Fantastic. Thanks very much. You, Mike, and everyone else have been such great people to me for helping me out.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Clay vs Colorsanding?

Fantastic. Thanks very much. You, Mike, and everyone else have been such great people to me for helping me out.

You are very welcome!

Tim