for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

[ccr]

in this article , the table 1 that is the % in gloss increase meguiars (hi tech yellow wax) is ranked last (25), and this wax KLASSE is ranked first (1), klasse increased the gloss 32.8%, and #26 increase the gloss 5.5 %

but..... the situation is that the average gloss before gloss in the panel that ise use for #26 is 81.60--- 81.60 to 86.10 = 5.5 increase in gloss

and the panel that is use for KLASSE wax is 64.42,--- 64.42 to 89.04 = 32.8 increase in gloss, all of the products in test increase the gloss, the average gloss after wax is 86 to 89 , the only big difference is the average gloos before wax, is possible that for that reason meguiars rank last , i mean if meguiars use the panel that has 64.42 before wax is possible that increase the gloss to a 86 or 89 and give a higher % in gloss increse, what do you think 'bout this??

[Mike Phillips]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

The best test is the one you do yourself.

"Find something you like and use it often"


So many of these tests are so subjective, or they don't compare apples to apples, also the best test of any product is on black paint.

Don't really have time to study their test, don't really care to. The last three cars we detailed all got Meguiar's on them and the owner was more than pleased.


1948 Bentley - Rubbed out by hand



1956 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud



1979 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith II



As long as you do the correct paint preparation work first, then most quality waxes will make the paint look good and to the best of a chemist's ability, they will protect the paint.

Keep in mind all a wax or paint protectant can do is slow down the substances that come into contact with paint that if they can get past the protective coating will attack and deteriorate the paint.


Now follow me on this...

Anything strong enough to etch automotive paint is more than likely going to get past your micron thin layer of wax or whatever it is you're using for a paint protectant.

So all the test in the world while maybe fun to read and interesting, where the rubber meets the road is when you go out into your garage and work on your car.

• What products do you enjoy using?
• What products in your eyes work the best for you?
• What products in your eyes make your car's paint look the best?

That's what's most important. If you find a product that protects well, or makes the paint real glossy but you don't like using it or it's a hassle to obtain it when you need it, then you're not going to be inclined to use it or use it often.

Assuming we're talking about "Daily Drivers", and that's what most of us own, not garage queen show cars, then...


”Find something you like and use it often”

If you find a product you like, then apparently the results look good in your eyes, if you use it often, then your finish will always look great. It's only when you begin to neglect or abuse the finish that it goes down hill.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

Well isn't that interesting. Sounds like a law of diminishing returns sort of situation. If Klasse could raise the gloss level from a measured 64.42 to 89.04 (a 38.2% increase by the way, NOT 32.8%), would it have taken the measured 81.60 "before" panel that #26 was given and raise it by a similar amount? Well, gee, that would give the panel a 112.77 gloss reading which isn't possible since gloss is essentially a measurement of reflected light. Show me an automotive paint that reflects back more light than is presented to it!!! To me this is just another flaw in the test methods used by CR. All products should have been tested on similarly baselined substrates, not hugely disparate ones like they apparently did.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - I was turned off to this whole test even before seeing the complete results when I read where one of their top rated products could cause minor scratching in dark colors. This turned me off for two reasons:

• 1. How the heck do you have the gall to rate a wax as a top pick if you also state it can scratch the paint!?!?!? Seriously, that's in my top 5 list of craziest nonsense I've ever heard!
• 2. The basic statement shows the tester's gross lack of understanding of the whole process: no matter the base color, you're waxing the clear coat, the scratches just show up easier against a darker base color. Plus, the odds of ANY wax actually imparting scratches is slim to none - it's the application method and the cleanliness (or lack of) surrounding that application that's causing the marring. But nooooo, we are scientists, we couldn't possibly be in error here, it must be the wax

As any good detailer knows, most of the gloss comes from the preparation anyway. Wash, clay and polish your car. Man, does it shine!!! Maybe like never before if this is the first time these three steps have been done to it. But how can it be so shiny? I mean, you didn't wax it yet, so where's the shine coming from? The shine is coming from a beautifully smooth and prepared surface. Adding a wax to this surface can make a difference in appearance, sure, but nowhere near as dramatic as those first steps did.

[ccr]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

Well isn't that interesting. Sounds like a law of diminishing returns sort of situation. If Klasse could raise the gloss level from a measured 64.42 to 89.04 (a 38.2% increase by the way, NOT 32.8%), would it have taken the measured 81.60 "before" panel that #26 was given and raise it by a similar amount? Well, gee, that would give the panel a 112.77 gloss reading which isn't possible since gloss is essentially a measurement of reflected light. Show me an automotive paint that reflects back more light than is presented to it!!! To me this is just another flaw in the test methods used by CR. All products should have been tested on similarly baselined substrates, not hugely disparate ones like they apparently did.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - I was turned off to this whole test even before seeing the complete results when I read where one of their top rated products could cause minor scratching in dark colors. This turned me off for two reasons:

• 1. How the heck do you have the gall to rate a wax as a top pick if you also state it can scratch the paint!?!?!? Seriously, that's in my top 5 list of craziest nonsense I've ever heard!
• 2. The basic statement shows the tester's gross lack of understanding of the whole process: no matter the base color, you're waxing the clear coat, the scratches just show up easier against a darker base color. Plus, the odds of ANY wax actually imparting scratches is slim to none - it's the application method and the cleanliness (or lack of) surrounding that application that's causing the marring. But nooooo, we are scientists, we couldn't possibly be in error here, it must be the wax

As any good detailer knows, most of the gloss comes from the preparation anyway. Wash, clay and polish your car. Man, does it shine!!! Maybe like never before if this is the first time these three steps have been done to it. But how can it be so shiny? I mean, you didn't wax it yet, so where's the shine coming from? The shine is coming from a beautifully smooth and prepared surface. Adding a wax to this surface can make a difference in appearance, sure, but nowhere near as dramatic as those first steps did.

you re right, i just comment about the article because this article have information that is incorrect to me, and i just want to know what you guys think about this

[Bunky]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

The best test is the one you do yourself.

"Find something you like and use it often"

I am trying to decide what wax to use - able to apply in one step. Durability is the key for me since I do not want to wax that much. I will never appreciate the extra glossness. It seems like Meguirs says NXT should be more durable than Gold Class but from what I can pick up in these forums they do not seem to think it is. Everyone seems to use beading/slickness as the key.

I am just curious why there is this observation. I can understand that from an engineering perspective that there can be a difference so what is the true test of durability (I assume paint protection is part of that)
Just looking for guidance..

[Saumil]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

hello all...avid megs user here...can i please have the article so i can critique methodology, statistics, and confounding variables...this is an area i excel in...I critique medical literature in school based on the above criteria...thank you!!

[Saumil]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

was there blinding?..blinding is important...study may have been funded=bias....


also...the baseline characteristics of the panels were not equal..it already sounds stupid..they had different "gloss" to start with..lolol...whoever did the study does not know what they are doing!

[acsuppa]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

As Mike says: "Find something you like and use it often". I love the results from #26. I must also agree that preperation is key. If you paint is in So So condition, the results that you get from #26 will not be that great. If I may ask, were did you read this artical?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

was there blinding?..blinding is important...study may have been funded=bias....


also...the baseline characteristics of the panels were not equal..it already sounds stupid..they had different "gloss" to start with..lolol...whoever did the study does not know what they are doing!

It was a Consumer Reports article, so no funding should have been involved whatsoever. As for test methodology......it's Consumer Reports - draw your own conclusions. I've stated mine and I get the feeling you agree with me!!

[HagFan]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

I am trying to decide what wax to use - able to apply in one step. Durability is the key for me since I do not want to wax that much. I will never appreciate the extra glossness...

I'd say your looking for a cleaner wax. If your finish is in rougher shape maybe Color X. If it's in good shape but needs cleaning the probalby Cleaner Wax or Gold Class. If it's in good shape and pretty clean it sounds like NXT would work. If its nice and clean all around them my favorite, #21 would be the choice-- Synthetic Sealant. It would help to know what color.

Here's an alternative suggestion to give you a little extra finish improvement. How about the Smooth Surface Clay kit, which comes with enough Cleaner Wax to do your car at least one coat. You can probalby clay the car in 1-2 hours if it's in reasonable shape and your wax will go in nicely.

It would also help to know what color your car is. ... Opps! I just re-read your post and realized you have a late model Lincoln, Blue. I think NXT is going to be the popular recommendation. As your vehicle ages you may need more cleaning power. I'd still clay it to start with though.

[Bunky]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

It would also help to know what color your car is. ... Opps! I just re-read your post and realized you have a late model Lincoln, Blue. I think NXT is going to be the popular recommendation. As your vehicle ages you may need more cleaning power. I'd still clay it to start with though.

Thanks.

I was trying to understand what is the best measure of durability (is there still something there protecting the paint) since this important to me. I guess I changed the topic somewhat.

From what I read, gloss is determined by the surface finish so even though a well prepared surface has better appearance than a unprepared (not clayed,etc) the wax is providing the protection, right?

Al

[HagFan]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

Right... the wax or sealant is the protection. If you clay, you've removed the portection and need to reapply wax or sealant.

I'm no pro and have only recently begun doing anything more that regular washing and waxing (Cleaner Wax or Gold Class).

I've got new vehicles and both have been clayed, glazed and then 2-coated with #21 Synthetic Sealant. That one is said here to be highly durable. I don't plan to let it all depleat before re-doing, but with 2 daily drivers I'll realistically clean and wax each 3 to 4 times a year.

I'm going to try my hand with the #83 or #80 this weekend on my daughter's white '95 Corolla. I think it will require #83 but I'll see what #80 will do first. I'll wash, clay, polish, and then wax. Probably give it one coat of Cleaner Wax (to use up some of mine) and top with #21.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

I am trying to decide what wax to use - able to apply in one step. Durability is the key for me since I do not want to wax that much. I will never appreciate the extra glossiness. It seems like Meguiar's says NXT should be more durable than Gold Class but from what I can pick up in these forums they do not seem to think it is. Everyone seems to use beading/slickness as the key.

I am just curious why there is this observation. I can understand that from an engineering perspective that there can be a difference so what is the true test of durability (I assume paint protection is part of that)
Just looking for guidance..

Most people go by water beading and slickness and most people don't see NXT as lasting the longest in these two criteria.

Meguiar's R&D states that at this time NXT Tech Wax is a our best protecting wax, some people read into this that the words best protecting mean longest lasting but we've never made any claims as to how long a wax will last because there are too many variable out of our control that affect how long a wax will last. For example if you wash your car with a scratchy wash mitt and dish soap the mechanical action of the wash mitt together with the detergent soap will act to abrade the wax off the surface. So it's not a good idea to make blanket statements about longevity with such a wide spectrum of people using your product and we have know idea how they're maintaining their car.

What we said is the protection ingredients in the NXT formula will be the best at slowing down and helping to prevent deterioration of the paint surface.

[Bunky]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

What we said is the protection ingredients in the NXT formula will be the best at slowing down and helping to prevent deterioration of the paint surface.

This is the kind of information that helps. So, for my car, a new 2007 dark blue metallic, it sounds like NXT is the best "protecting" wax for a single step type product (no polishing prior to waxing or using an cleaner/wax solution)

So, if I gave up on some protection but preferred better shine/beading, would the recommendation be Gold Class? I want to use products I can find at AutoZone, Pep Boys, Walmart, etc.

[HagFan]

Re: for the people that read the study comparation of wax/sealents

It seems like you'll want to stick with the Consumer line, although you might find their widely acclaimed (at least here) #26 at Autozone. I think I saw it there.

BTW: I don't know about the cured form of #21, but neither dish detergent (Dawn) nor laundry detergent with HOT water can break it down in the pad.