Help with Swirls

[revjolly]

I am quite frustrated with the swirl marks on my car. i tried scratch Xing my car by sections, but it takes me more than 8 passes to get the results i want. Does my applicator have to be moist when i apply the scratch X? What other products can I use to fix the swirls other than scratxh X? i was thinking M80 and M83, but I dont know if those are too agressive. Can someone please help me.

[onawrxhigh]

Re: Help with Swirls

hey revjolly,

If you could post some pictures of the car so everyone here can see what you are working with that would be a great help.

1) to my knowledge your applicator does not need to be moist. Just apply your scratch-x to the pad and rub it in with passion.
Question what are you using to apply the product to the paint(what kind of pad)?

2) this is where pictures would help so we could see how minor or major the swirling is. You can also try the reformulated fine cut cleaner, 80 speed glaze, and 83 dual action cleaner polish.

If you have a Meguiars G-100A polisher you will get awesome results with the 80 and 83 and they are not that aggressive to really worry about damaging your clear coat. If you are only working by hand try some 80 it will do wonders for you. Like I said earlier post some pics it will help us better help you.

A.Parshall

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Help with Swirls

Working by hand, you won't get any better result faster using a more aggressive product like one of our cleaner/polishes in the Professional Line. You would if you were to use one of these by machine, but not by hand.


Here's something we wrote a while back that addresses the topic to some degree...

Taken from

Products with Fillers? Concealing Swirls?


Removing swirls can take a long time to do a good job if all you're using is the dual action polisher. Other factors will affect how long it takes you also, things like how deep the swirls are and how hard the paint is.

The reason for this is because the dual action polisher is gentle to the finish. People like it for this reason. It's easy to control, that's another reason people like it.





For the same reasons people like it,

• * Safe
  * Gentle to the finish
  * Easy to control
  * Uses an oscillating action instead of a direct drive rotating action like the rotary buffer

It doesn't remove paint very fast. If you we're to look at a cross-section of a finish with cobweb-effect, or buffer swirls, also called holograms in an exploded view, it would look something like this,



In order to remove scratches, whether it's swirls like above, or a random, isolated, deeper scratch like below,



In order to effectively remove them, you need to remove all of the paint surrounding them until the surface is level with the lowest depths of the deepest defects.

To remove swirls and scratches, you must remove paint.

Modern catalyzed clear coats are much, much harder than traditional lacquers and enamels. This makes them more durable and less prone to oxidation. This also mean it is harder for the average person to remove a defects such as swirls.

Now here's the tricky part, most people, when they learn that the clear coat finish on their car is hard, not soft, they think and expect it to be less susceptible to swirls and scratches. It probably is to some degree when compared to a traditional lacquer or enamel finish, but in the real world, clear coats scratch very easily. Years ago, Meguiar's coined coined the term "Scratch Sensitive" to describe this characteristic of clear coat finishes.

On a side note, many people are under the impression clear coats are soft because they scratch so easy, this is simply a misunderstanding of the paint technology.

Because clear coats are typically harder than traditional paints, for example the paint that came on a 1952 Chevrolet Belair, or a 1967 Mustang, or a 1979 Dodge Truck, in order to completely remove defects like swirls and scratches, and to do it quickly, you must resort to a rotary buffer.



But that's not all. In the old days, any technician could use a rotary buffer with a wool pad and some cutting compound and quickly remove the swirls and scratches, then follow with a wool finishing pad and a finer polish or glaze and the results would look pretty good.

When the OEM, (OEM means, Original Equipment Manufacture, which in this case the equipment is a car or truck), under pressure from the EPA and other government regulatory agencies began to switch over to new paint technologies that emitted less V.O.C.'s into the air, (V.O.C.'s means Volatile Organic Compounds, which typically means some type of nasty solvent), the effect was to trickle down to the refinishing side of the business, (Body Shops), as well as to the polishing side of the business, (Polish Manufactures, like Meguiar's), and force these industries to change also.

Technicians in body shops had to learn how to spray two-stage paint systems, called basecoat/clear coat systems so they could match the factory finishes being used on new cars.

On the polishing side of the business, polish manufactures had to create new formula's that could be used successfully on these new clear coat finishes. In a nutshell, this meant finding ways to remove defects by becoming less aggressive, not the old-fashioned, traditional way which was to use products that were real aggressive and this relates how cutting compounds are made and even the step and the products used before the compounding step, the wet-sanding step.

This is where Meguiar's shines! You see, while most of the industry were focused on making products that cut fast, (automotive grade sanding papers, coarse, aggressive abrasives and wool pads), every since 1901 Meguiar's has been creating formulas for removing defects in paint that rely on abrasives that breakdown and are cushioned in a rich, lubricating film. In 1965 Meguiar's introduced the Wooless Wonder,



Which by the way worked and still works perfectly with diminishing abrasives embodied in a rich lubricating base and interestingly enough, don't work well at all with traditional compounds where the abrasives don't break down and rely on solvents for carrying agents. (The grit loads up in the foam and scratches and scours the paint). And in the 1980's introduced a paper for wet sanding that uses what Meguiar's calls Unigrit construction. What makes these papers unique and superior for wet-sanding is the uniform particle size of the abrasives AND the uniform placement of these abrasives over the entire sheet of paper. The end result being what Meguiar's refers to as a "Finishing", paper not a sanding paper that cuts faster and leaves a more uniform sanding mark pattern. The end result of this paper are sanding marks that buff out faster while leaving more paint on the car.

The system of finishing papers, diminishing abrasives and foam pad technology proved to be superior at creating swirl-free, high gloss finishes to which most of the industry has attempted to copy.

But I digress...

Your not the only one it takes a long time to remove swirls out of modern clear coat finishes. It's the nature of the beast.

That's why I and others have suggested that for the money your customers are willing to pay, you need to spend a little time educating them on their cars finish and the polishing process and perhaps match their expectations for a clean, shiny car but create these results using either a one-step approach, or a two-step approach, but don't try to remove all the swirls unless you charge more for your time and efforts.

Hope this helps...

[revjolly]

Re: Help with Swirls

so if i use my PC, #80 and #83 is what i should use? what should i use first? and what pad?

[TrufflePig]

Re: Help with Swirls

hi there,

okay if you're using the PC the following applies.

Purple Pad #7006 - This is only used to remove wax with a bonnet. DO NOT USE THIS PAD ON YOUR FINISH AS IT WILL MARR THE PAINT.

Yellow Pad #W8006 - For paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes #80 #83 #9

Tan Pad #W9006 - For Polishes, and waxes. #3 #7 GC Wax NXT Wax

Wash
Clay
M80
M83 - if needed. if M80 isn't aggressive enough.
if you want you can add a pure polish but its not really needed.
NXT x 2

if that doesn't work, you might need a rotary to get the product out. i believe 83 is one of the most aggressive product you can use with the G100.

post some pics and let us know how it goes.

remember, just do a test spot to see how this whole process will work. will save you a lot of time.

[badhemi]

Re: Help with Swirls

if you can find an old hood to practice on i'd do that first. this is how i started out with the buffer. it's better to make a mistake on it than your vehicle. plus you'll learn how far you can go before you really mess up. good luck and take your time.

[revjolly]

Re: Help with Swirls

so if i use M80 and it works, can i apply my nxt spray wax afterwards?

[TrufflePig]

Re: Help with Swirls

so if i use M80 and it works, can i apply my nxt spray wax afterwards?

wash
clay
m80
M83 if needed
wax x 2
sit back and enjoy

why use a spray wax. those are more for touchups in between wax jobs. use NXT Wax and apply with the G-100. I'm assuming you're using a G100 to apply the M80 so yeah apply the NXT and you'll get some awesome results.

if M80 doesn't get the majority of your swirls out, bump up to M83, which is more aggressive but as you work it in, becomes less aggressive against your paint. that make sense. its sort of like diminishing abrasives as its worked in.

can you please POST SOME PICS SO WE CAN SEE AND BETTER HELP YOU OUT!!!

[revjolly]

Re: Help with Swirls

k. ill post pics asap.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Help with Swirls

With the pc use the #80 first. Try a test section first. Try 2 passes if you have to. Then if need be try #83 Remember use a differant foam pad. Always try to remember 1 pad per product. This should work as the others have stated.