Unsuccessful with #9

[jremitio]

I jus want some input and advice. I just got done applying #9 Swirl Remover to my new, black Lexus GS300 using a PC DA polisher and followed up with NXT wax. I did what I thought was right - 8006 polishing pad, 20 pounds of pressure, setting #5 on the DA and making up/down, left/right passes. The swirl marks are still there. In fact, I think they've increased.

Am I using too mild of a cleaner/polisher? Any ideas on what I should try next? I believe I have broken down the abrasive enough (just before it turned to dust). Thanks.

[Setec Astronomy]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

#9 is really mild. You should try one of the 80-series products. If you have the typical dealer-installed swirls, you might need to start with #83, and since the car is black, followed by #80 or #82. If they're not too bad, #80 might do the whole trick.

If you think you increased the swirls, you need to look at your process, starting with the washing, claying if necessary, and make sure everything (car, pads, buffing towels) are clean. On a black car, even your buffing or drying towels can leave swirls if they are not the right type.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

20 pounds of pressure, setting #5 on the DA and making up/down, left/right passes. The swirl marks are still there. In fact, I think they've increased.

Something that's often left out of hand-typed instructions but is often shown in hands-on training is how on you last passes you lighten up your pressure. Remember, polishing paint is an art form, not merely a mechanical process. Paint is a thin, delicate coating that is easily dulled or scratched and once it dulled and/or scratched restoring a crystal clear, high gloss finish requires not only the right products and techniques, but the human element of care and passion.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

As Setec Astronomy pointed out, M09 is a very light cleaner/polish, in most cases best results for physically removing the swirls, i.e. removing paint, comes when this product is applied using a rotary buffer.

The below Lexus had horrible swirls instilled using a rotary buffer, usually the worst kind, and using M80 Speed Glaze with good technique achieved this,


Before


After

[N.E.W.car]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

Well, since they don't make the GS300 anymore - I am guessing it's a "new-to-you-used" Lexus. That being said, I would bet it's got more than just dealer-installed swirls.

Lexus paint, in every occurance I have been involved in, is VERY soft. As in so soft it's almost too EASY to polish. I was getting marring with M80, which is a pretty mild cleaner/polish. I have NEVER needed M83 on Lexus paint - M80 has always been aggressive enough in my experience.

Like Mike said, polishing paint is more than just mechanics - it's an artform, and even more so on super-soft paints in my opinion.

M9 MIGHT handle really light DISO - but it's probably not going to help moderate swirls - it might even make things worse if not applied 100% correctly.

In my experience, and I have done a few black Lexus vehicles - M80 followed my M66 and then either M21 or NXT will knock 'em dead. Any micro-marring left by M80 will be taken care of by M66, which will also leave behind a light coat of wax. Top that off with M21 or NXT and you have a killer finish in only three steps.

Again: M80 - M66 - M21 or NXT. That is a two polishing steps and and two waxing steps in only three applications.

Hope this helps bro...

[Mayur]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

Well, since they don't make the GS300 anymore - I am guessing it's a "new-to-you-used" Lexus. That being said, I would bet it's got more than just dealer-installed swirls.

Lexus paint, in every occurance I have been involved in, is VERY soft. As in so soft it's almost too EASY to polish. I was getting marring with M80, which is a pretty mild cleaner/polish. I have NEVER needed M83 on Lexus paint - M80 has always been aggressive enough in my experience.

Like Mike said, polishing paint is more than just mechanics - it's an artform, and even more so on super-soft paints in my opinion.

M9 MIGHT handle really light DISO - but it's probably not going to help moderate swirls - it might even make things worse if not applied 100% correctly.

In my experience, and I have done a few black Lexus vehicles - M80 followed my M66 and then either M21 or NXT will knock 'em dead. Any micro-marring left by M80 will be taken care of by M66, which will also leave behind a light coat of wax. Top that off with M21 or NXT and you have a killer finish in only three steps.

Again: M80 - M66 - M21 or NXT. That is a two polishing steps and and two waxing steps in only three applications.

Hope this helps bro...

My dad has a 96 es300 and I used #9 on it followed by DC system. Used light cutting pad with #9 and it removed alot of the minor swirls and fine scratches. When I mean fine I mean very fine scratches. And there is no more gs300. It is now gs350 so Im assuming it is a used car?

[noswirler]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

deep swirls can only be removed by a RB, you get em out the same way you put em in

[onnfire]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

That is not always true. Meguiars advocates using the least aggresive method possible first. Some pictures might help to diagnose the problem.

[N.E.W.car]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

deep swirls can only be removed by a RB, you get em out the same way you put em in

Sorry bro - you're incorrect.

I have polished out "deep swirls" with M80 and a PC. You would be surprised.

Of course it all depends on the paint, the detailer, and the tools/products.

A rotary might work faster, but unless you are PERFECT, you are adding another step...as it takes a lot of talent and some help by the paint to produce a true swirl-free finish by rotary.

I'm not saying a rotary isn't needed in some cases, but as far as rotary-induced swirls and the like, it would take a REALLY bad case to need a rotary.

[jremitio]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

It's a brand new 2006 GS300, bought one week before the GS350's came out. It might have been in the dealer's lot for several months and might have gone through many carwashes. I bought this one with DISO, an option I really did not want. Now I'm suffering.

I'll bring my car to the Meguiars workshop here in Phoenix. I hear they have one the first week of December.

[pcfxer]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

I think you missed one important aspect. Work the product into the paint by moving SLOWLY (this is the human element part) such that the pad and product actually do work. The product is broken down when it is almost clear yet you still see some of it on the paint.

Do not dry buff, you want to get near dry buffing but never get to it. You are dry buffing when the product has dried and you have not worked the product over your area. When this happens you should stop buffing, wipe off all of the product and reapply and rework new product.

As others have mentioned, M9 is a very mild product and your paint will probably require M80 to achieve the results that you want. I find that M9, after doing extensive repair like with the Lexus pictures above, is a good applicant for bridging the gap between polish and cleaner.

[jremitio]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll probably try #80 and see if it works. I wonder if the new Scratch X used with a DA will work.

[imacarnut]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

The below Lexus had horrible swirls instilled using a rotary buffer, usually the worst kind, and using M80 Speed Glaze with good technique achieved this,

Before


After

as mike has mentioned in the past, start with the least aggressive product first. rather than use #83 first, do a test spot (as shown above) with #80, and then examine your results from there...

[PaBlkBrd]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

#80 followed by #21 is the combo I use on my Black Tbird, and it looks like black wet glass. I have tried several Megs products and these two work the best for me.

[hammer55]

Re: Unsuccessful with #9

Sence #9 And #80 Are The Same As Far As Agressiveness, Whats The Difference