pads? wool & foam

[mavrick]

Hello,mavrick again.I've seen the same swirl marks that others have posted,looked liked mine.A few black cars done look GREAT,thats what i want too.I keep reading about #80 & 83.Can i use it?,and which one.Ihave a rotory,dial speed 500-3000rpm. .I think i've read that you can use wool pad, or foam.I'm new to foam pads i polished 18yrs ago,using only wool pads with no problem.It shines great, glossy,but i can tell.oh,& do i need to remove the wax i put on ?,please check out my other post of what i did,ALL THIS NEW STUFF GOT ME THANKS, MAVRICK.

[Phalcon51]

Re: pads? wool & foam

Hey Mavrick,

Stay away from the Wool pad, it's very aggressive. It should only be used for removing deep defects or bad oxidation. These days it's best used with a microfiber bonnet for removing wax. You can do a lot of damage with a wool pad and a rotary buffer on the newer clearcoat paintjobs.

The foam pads come in different grades from mild for polishing or waxing to more aggressive for cutting with one or two in between, depending on the manufacturer. The rule of thumb is to start off with the least aggressive approach first. If that doesn't clear up the problem, escalate one step at a time. Work on just one small area of the car till you know what approach to use.

If you can provide some good photos in strong sunlight or with a halogen or xenon light to show up the problem areas there are plenty of knowledgeable folks here who can give you specific advice as to what pad and product to use. Also, there's a definite technique to use with a rotary and foam pads. Do some searching and reading here before you start on your car.

There's a video entitled "How To Use The Rotary Buffer for Show Car Results" coming out in a few days over on ShowCarGarage.com. They're down at the moment to update their forum software. I believe it's going to be around 3 1/2 hours in length and features Mike Phillips, if I'm not mistaken. Should be well worth the money.

Good luck

[the other pc]

Re: pads? wool & foam

From: Product, Pad and Speed settings for the Rotary Buffer

Product, Pad and Speed settings for the Rotary Buffer




Additional considerations…

The above recommendations are only a starting point. Keep in mind; there are many variables, which contribute to the overall performance of a product, and the end result.

For example:

1) Paint – Type of paint, age of paint, hardness of paint…all of these play into which pad and product will work best for that particular application.

2) Pressure – Increased pressure means increased “cutting”…In some cases this is needed, and in other case this could be detrimental to the surface.

3) Machine Speed – By increasing the rpm’s of the machine, you automatically increase the action of the machine. This means additional “cutting action” for when using products that have defect and swirl removal capability.

4) Arm Speed – The quicker you move your arms back and forth, the less chance the product has to do it job. The slower the arm speed the greater chance of removing defects and swirls.

5 Pad Choice – The more aggressive the pad, the more “cutting” action will take place. You must first evaluate your finish, determine your goal, and then choose the appropriate pad to do the job.

6) Product Choice - You must first evaluate your finish, determine your goal, and then choose the appropriate product to do the job.


By evaluating the finish, choosing the right product, and using good techniques, a quality finish can be achieved fairly simply.

[mavrick]

Re: pads? wool & foam

Thanks! so your saying,the paint today is softer,than 18yrs ago? and the technique for using foam pads is different than wool pads.I wish i had stayed in that line of work.I only have a rotory,and i'll try to post some pics, the video sounds great too,looks like i'll have to learn all over, THANKS SO MUCH, MAVRICK

[Chex]

Re: pads? wool & foam

Hi Mavrick

I've seen both of your posts and well, I do understand the pain that leaving swirls causes.

I use a rotary too, and in this case, things are very different.

cars were made before with single stage paints, and manufacturers started to introduce clearcoat systems later on. however, clear coat technology has evolved in what we would determine as paint hardness.

single stage paint systems have evolved too in technology regardnig hardness, so what we can say, and u8nderstand completely, is that they were easier to buff and shine. I've been in this for around 3 years, but have detailed some old paints and yeah, you can use very aggressive rubbing compounds and still get good results with almost no swirls :P

the bad thing here is that actual paint systems are harder, so you need to work them with new abrasive technology too. in this case, clear coats should be buffed with the least abrasive products to prevent what usually happens: bad time with swirl removal.

wool pad swirls can be very hard to remove if you use very aggressive abrasives, while foam pads give you the advantage of very light swirls, or no swirls at all when you work them with abrasives that break down, like the ones you find in meguiar's compounds.

in this case, since the swirls are there (wool pad + compound...finesse it from 3M?) , M83 will do a good gob in removing these kinds of swirls. however, if they are very deep, you'll need 2 or 3 passes...it all depends.

the recommended use would be M83+foam polishing pad (since you talked about 3M, with a perfectIt foam polishing pad) @ 1400RPM.

if you want to remove them even more, you'll have to give it a pass with M80 and a rotary buffer, and then use M80 with a PC, but it all depends on how flawless you want your job.

meanwhile in the waxing process, in my experience, it's better to do it by hand. I've found that when I aplly waxes by rotary, most of it lifts and doesn't leave me the same protection and durability than when I do it by hand.

and I know some history in this article could make it strange, but sometimes a little bit more of background can help you determine future situations.

Hope this helps

[mavrick]

Re: pads? wool & foam

Thanks Chex,you've been very helpfull,it's been a while.Todays pads, [foam] with todays products.The swirls marks are slight,and i ONLY, have a rotory,i'm sure you ,or others could make it look like black glass.SO,should i use foam polish pad & m83 or m80? or the finishing pad,will i have to remove the wax or will 83 or 80 remove it? THANS AGAIN SO MUCH for your help MAVRICK

[mavrick]

Re: pads? wool & foam

I believe the least agressive will work #9 also? maybe?

[Chex]

Re: pads? wool & foam

yup, #9 and #82 (swirl free polish) are the leaste aggressive for swirl mark removal, and you could start with one of those and a foam polishing pad. if that doesn't do the job, you should switch to a more aggressive combination which could go like these as suggestions (least aggressive to most aggressive):

#9/#82+foam finishing pad

#9/#82+foam polishing pad

#80+foam polishing pad

#83+foam finishing pad

#83+foam polishing pad

#83+ foam cutting pad

if your swirls are from compounding or from using a wool pad, it is more recommended to remove them with #83 and a foam polishing pad. if the swirls are from using #83 with a cutting pad, it is recommended to use #82/#9 with a finishing pad or foam poslishing pad; whichever is your choice.

if the swirls you're dealing with are from an unknown cause (normal day-in day-out wear), follow the "use the least aggressive product" rule. it will get you out of lots of trouble, especially with those new clear coats that can be as hard as glass.

and BTW, when polishing, try not to exceed 1400RPM's to get best results.

Hope this helps

[Mike Phillips]

Re: pads? wool & foam

Hi Maverick,

Looks like Chex has answered most of your questions, below are a few threads that cover the topic of using the rotary buffer with an outline of pads, products and steps to follow and the other one discusses the change in paint technology, both are good reads.


Switching from 3M to Meguiar's - Rotary Buffer Questions?

My hatred of clear coats


Here's a couple more that discuss how to achieve a 100% swirl free finish using a rotary buffer and then following up using a dual action polisher.

How to avoid swirls and holograms?

Need HELP! - How to avoid holograms?


This thread also shares an outline for removing swirls and restoring a swirl free finish on black paint

1999 Corvette - Remove Swirls and Scratches


Here are some before shots of the finish in its current condition,

Deck lid



Hood (note the buffer swirls)




Below are some after shots of the finish with two coats of NXT Tech Wax. Here is a shot of the sun reflecting off the deck lid,



Here's a reflection shot of Tech Wax on the deck lid,
(I wiped the bottom of the bottle clean and set it ever so gently onto the finish)



And here's a reflection shot of some shrubs on the hood,

[mavrick]

Re: pads? wool & foam

Hey,CHEX,MIKE YOU guys REALLY helped me out.What pads with what stuff,PERFECT! my black 06 focus looked like the hood,NOW thanks to you guys know what to do.As soon as i can [been raining] i'll let you guys know how it looks.Oh & MIKE,FANTASTIC shine,gloss everthing PERFECT!! on the corvette,[now i can sleep, ha] THANKS MAVRICK