84 and 85

[kboxer]

Do you guys have to wash after using either of these. Whenever I use the 3m rub it series I always had to wash good. It was so dusty.


Also can you guys go from 84 to 80 on darker cars without problem. I know
3m uses fillers but it was a nice follow up with the smr.

I know 84 is more aggressive than 83 but I dont like using 83.

I have a white 96 explorer I am have to tackle and needs to be compounded heavy. Not sure if I want to go wool or foam pad with the compound. Never used foam for compound yet.

[TH0001]

Re: 84 and 85

#84 is not very dusty at all. As long as you are using it with a cutting pad and are cleaning the pad after each pass, you can keep the dusting VERY low (the product is very wet).

#85 is very dry, and if you don't have alot of experince, it will dry quickly on a foam pad. It is designed for use on a wool pad, but I **** with wool pads. On a rotary, #84 is just as easy, if not easier to use then #80, IMO.

As far as going from #84 directly to #80, I would say this is dependant on so many factors its not even funny. It is possible...

Just to reinerrate, #84 is for use of rotary only. So yes I have followed #84, with #80 or #82 on the rotary, then finished up with the same compound via PC. If you use either #84 or the cutting pad with a PC, you risk installing more hazing then the PC can take out.

[repo]

Re: 84 and 85

Ive been doing

84 rotary 1000 rpm
80 orbital yellow pad on 5 (really working it in till its done its work)
NXT on 3

Ive done it on quite a few black cars lately and the results have been great. No swirls in direct sun either. I never wash cars after a componding unless Im doing something with the cheaper compound I have at work for really nasty cars.

[kboxer]

Re: 84 and 85

When I use the 3m it was everywhere. I learned from a guy who was very old school, but very good. We always used wool pads. His philosophy was foam pads burn the paint too easy.

The 80 series is the newer technology and has diminishing abrasives also? And it does finish somewhat nice. I guess I will have to see what 80 can do. I have my rotary here so it may be 80 rotary and then 82 by pc after.


I have never used 84 so is it much more aggressice than than 83?

[the other pc]

Re: 84 and 85

…The 80 series is the newer technology and has diminishing abrasives also? ...

Yes, the 80’s have diminishing abrasives.

…I have never used 84 so is it much more aggressice than than 83?

#84 does have significantly more cut than #83. Thanks to the diminishing abrasives it is still possible (sometimes, depending on paint, pad, etc…) to get to (or near) final gloss with it.


PC.

[kboxer]

Re: 84 and 85

I may give 83 a try again. I am going to get some 84 though to have on hand. Work it just like the others? Spread the area you are going to work and then go to town on it? I will use wool pads though. Hopefully I can follow up with pc.

The pc video made me analyze my rotary work as well and see that I am rushing jobs too. Not working a small enough area, definetely pushing down on the rotary too hard.

Thanks guys.

[the other pc]

Re: 84 and 85

... I am going to get some 84 though to have on hand. Work it just like the others? Spread the area you are going to work and then go to town on it? ...

AFAIK you work all of Meguiar's compounds, cleaners and cleaner/polishes the same way.


PC.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 84 and 85

Here's a reply to a member's question that kind of goes over some of your questions, it can be found in the Hot Topics forum.

Switching from 3M to Meguiar's - Rotary Buffer Questions?

Originally posted by Solus
Hi there, well its me again guys, look i been using 3M products and they work good, i just use the Perfect-It II Rubbing compound and the swirl remover, but now i am interest on using Meguiar's and i found Fine Cut , Medium Cut and Heavy cut cleaners, which i don't know why i think are similar as Dual action cleaner/polish, compound power cleaner, and diamond cut compound.

Hi Solus,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online!

The questions is what is the difference between them, i mean i know fine is light compound and heavy is aggressive as dual action is light compound and diamond is the aggressive one, but why there are like 2 light compounds and 2 abrasives, is that because of different paints? like the ones of th body shops that sometimes are harder cuz of too much hardness and cheap paint, and that the stock ones are soft? Or is just preference or what would be a difference?

The primary difference is they type of diminishing abrasive they use, at least that's the difference most people would notice when using them. All of these products, M01, M02, M04, M85, M84, M83, M82, M80, can be used on either clearcoated finishes, or non-clearcoated finishes. The 80's series are more modern technology based upon Meguiar's experience formulating products used at the OEM level. I would also like to add that the formula's for the Traditional Mirror Glaze Products, M02, M04, have also been updated when technology allows. I'm not sure about M01 Medium Cut Cleaner.

Either way, both groups of products work well when used according to directions on the label and which one works best for you will be based upon your personal preferences.

I'm sure a lot of you guys have used these products would you share with me some of your experience with them? plus comments.

I think Travis has contributed a lot to this thread already, thank you Travis!

Sometimes you have to work on the Sun because theres no shade, also many compounds dry too fast cuz of the hot surface and evaporate leaving all sticky the compound on the paint, i don't know if this happens with these compounds.

There are no compounds, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes or pure polishes manufactured by Meguiar's specifically formulated for use in direct sunlight on automotive paints. The sun, or more specifically, the heat created by sunlight will increase surface temperature of the finish and make any product more difficult to work with and affect the performance of the product dramatically. Meguiar's always recommends working on a cool surface in the shade. We understand that when doing mobile detailing work, this isn't always possible, one solution is to do what Joe of
Superior Shine Mobil Auto Detailing does and that is to use a portable canopy when working in direct sunlight.



You can check out Joe's most excellent before and after write-up on how he removed the swirls in the finish of the black BMW using Meguiar's compounds, polishes and waxes in the below thread. (If the below makeover doesn't knock your socks off, nothing will!)

BMW 745il Extreme Make-Over

Also do they hide swirl marks?

Meguiar's compounds, paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes all use Meguiar's Diminishing Abrasive Technology. When used correctly, the diminishing abrasive technology Meguiar's has pioneered since 1901 and continues to improve today, will do two things,

• 1. Remove the below surface defects, swirls, sanding marks, etchings, oxidation, etc.
  2. Remove their own marks as they reduce in size and polish out

like i like to wash the car with a sponge after compound and polish just with water to remove all the dust left by compounding and polishing, and then after that i glaze it and protect it with a pure wax or polymer.(depending on the color)

I been detailing for 2 years started with a rotary buffer burning some paints :P but well i have worked on 2 detail shops and a mobile detail, and i got some experience from there, also by doing some side jobs. I don't burn paint anymore

I would recommend reading the below two threads in the Hot Topics because they discuss in detail working what can and what cannot be done with a rotary buffer as far as creating a swirl free finish.

Need HELP! - How to avoid holograms?

How to avoid swirls and holograms?

In the end, in order to guarantee a completely swirl free finish on a dark colored paint in bright lights, you're going to need to re-polish each panel either by hand or with a dual action polisher to insure any remaining minor swirls induced by the direct drive circular contact between your pad of choice on a rotary buffer and the paint are completely removed. That, or use a coating or two of wax to insure any remaining holograms or swirls are eliminated.

Read the above two threads as there is a lot of good information in them that would not be efficient to try to re-post into this thread.

Here is one example of a selection of products you can start out with when switching over to Meguiar's from 3M. This is not you're only option, but I'm trying to keep it simple with only a few products for you to experiment with.

The M84 Compound Power Cleaner is an easy product to use with a lot of play time. It is formulated to be used with foam pads, not wool pads, so you can avoid using wool and thus avoid instilling wool fiber swirls.

The M80 Speed Glaze is a light cleaner/polish that will remove fine swirls with our W-8006 polishing pad. The key to making this product remove any leftover swirls from the M84 Compound Power Cleaner is to make sure you buff the M84 completely so that you have broken all of the diminishing abrasives down completely. This is the trick to not leaving behind any deeper swirls with Meguiar's compounds. (Don't buff to a dry buff however).

The M80 Speed Glaze is also easy to work with, offers a lot of play time, and easy to wipe off. You can then also use it with the dual action polisher to insure there are no remaining swirls. M80 Speed Glaze produces a very, very, clear and glossy finish, perfect for applying your LSP to.

Again, the below recommendations are not the only products or method of tackling every car, but it is a system that will work on most cars that you will come across and 99.9% of the time, it will produce professional results you can be proud of and your customers will love you for and recommend you to their friends.

It's also the system I used to remove the swirls on this clearcoated Corvette and restore a swirl-free, crystal clear finish.

1999 Corvette - Remove Swirls and Scratches


~~~~~~~~~


First Step Products and Process
Rotary Buffer for removing serious below surface defects,

Compound Power Cleaner
SOFTBUFFâ„¢ Cutting Pad



Second Step Products and Process
Rotary buffer for removing any residual swirls or haze left by the first step process.

Speed Glaze
Soft Buff® Foam Polishing Pads




Third Step Products and Process
Dual Action Polisher to insure a completely swirl free finish in direct sun or bright lights.

Electric Dual Action Polisher
Speed Glaze
Soft Buff® Foam Polishing Pads



At this step, use the above same products that you used with a rotary buffer in your second step process, only now substitute a different machine to apply them with. For this step, use a dual action polisher to re-polish each panel using the oscillating action of this type of machine to polish and remove any remaining swirls left by the rotary buffer to insure a completely swirl-free finish.





Last Step Products and Process
By hand or using a dual action polisher to apply your choice of wax, also known as your L.S.P., Last Step Product, this is the last product you apply and remove before standing back and saying to yourself, it is finished. Then, turn the car back over to the excited owner!

Electric Dual Action Polisher
SOFTBUFFâ„¢ Finishing Pad





Meguiar's LSP's

Here are a few options for last step products if you've performed a multiple-step process as outlined above.

NXT Generation„¢ Tech Wax



NXT Generation Tech Wax Paste



Gold Class Clear Coat Car Wax



Deep Crystal System Carnauba Wax



Hi-Tech Yellow Wax




Synthetic Sealant




Polymer Sealant



~~~~~~~~~~

This reply took a little while to write, I hope it helps...

[kboxer]

Re: 84 and 85

Thanks Mike.