HELP! G100 and M83 is NOT working for me

[evo77]

Car is a Flame Red 2003 Dodge Neon SRT-4. The paint is in very good condition with very minimal marring. But the marring is not of my main concern. On the top portions of the car (trunk lid, roof and hood) there are numerous tiny acid rain etchings (i would presume). Most are very small, like the point of a pen and some are little bigger.

I've borrowed this pic from the How-To to give an example of what they look like (except mine are scattered farther apart from each other)...


I apologize but I am unable to capture these etchings on my camera. They just don't come out visible and I don't know how to mess with the camera settings so that they show.

Anyways, today is the first time with my G100 and I've done as much reading as I can around here to use the best technique for the best results but for some reason I'm coming up empty handed.

Using a new W8006 pad, G100 set to speed 5, M83 applied in the X pattern on pad, move product around in a 2x1.25 area (half of trunk top), applying a good amount of pressure (close to the recommended 15-20 lbs) and work until a very slight haze before removing with Supreme Shine MF towel. There is barely a difference after doing 4 applications already. Only diff I see is the paint is a little darker and some light swirls are gone. That's it. With the right angle light, I can still see all of the little dots of etching on the paint.

What I'm a doing wrong?

[evo77]

Anybody out there that can offer quick advice? This is very annoying considering I've planned for the last 2 weeks as today being the day to detail my car. I'm at my folks house borrowing their garage (since I don't have one) and the day is just about WASTED because I haven't been able to get through the first step. Hell, I haven't even left the trunk lid and I've got an entire car to do with 2 more steps to go and its already 3:30pm...

[RDVT4ME]

A G100 will not have much effect on etching like that. It is not abrasive enough to remove much paint. You will need to go to a rotary buffer. If the etching is really deep you may need to go further and sand and buff.....this is not for the faint of heart.

If you do not have experiance with the rotary buffer or sanding I would suggest finding a pro to take care of this problem.

BTW, how is life in the windy city. I grew up in the Schaumburg area. Lived there for the first 43 years of my life.....I miss getting good pizza. We do finally have Portillo's here in So Cal.

[evo77]

Thanks for the reply. Wow do I feel like a moron. Spent almost $200 in Meguiars products only to find that its not enough to take care of my paint issues. That is just beautiful.

I'm in Zion actually. 1 hour north of the Chi. Been in the area all my life.

I'm going to tackle it a few more times for the hell of it. Are my expectations to high? I want the finish to be FLAWLESS. No specks, no etchings, no scratches. Just pure crystal clear paint and gloss. Is this too much to ask?

[RDVT4ME]

I don't think you wasted your money. The G100 and M83 will tackle most of the scratch/swirl issues you will come across. Using M83 with the polishing pad is about as far as you can go with the G100. Meguiars does not recommend using the cutting (maroon) pad with the G100.

Etching, like from bird droppings is another issue which requires more abbraision. Sometimes the etching is too deep and you will never completely fix it. You will probably make it less visible by using a rotary buffer.

You should be able to get a very nice swirl free paint with the tools you have. You also have come to the right place. There is a lot of great help here. So, don't loose hope.

Practice on a small area (2 ft X 2 Ft) until you get the desired results. Then apply the technique that worked to the entire car. In no time you will have a great looking Meguiars finish!

[Guiser]

I also don't think you wasted your money. If what you want to achieve is beyond your skill level and you have to take it to someone, you can still do most of the work on your own. This will reduce the amount of work that the pro has to do to fix these areas (and the cost to you). Once the whole car looks great you can use the same tools to maintain the finish so you never have to go back to a pro again. At this point you are saving time, and time = money.

- Ben

[the other pc]

Originally posted by evo77
...Are my expectations to high? I want the finish to be FLAWLESS. No specks, no etchings, no scratches. Just pure crystal clear paint and gloss. Is this too much to ask?

Kind’a depends on just how flawless your definition of “FLAWLESS” is.

I’ve never seen a finish that I would call “perfect.” It’s just not physically possible.

Some things that I would call “imperfections” may be so irrelevant as to be completely negligible. In that case they you could argue that they aren’t “flaws” and perhaps “flawless” is possible under ideal conditions.

Sorry to get all philosophical.

Bottom line; I would say that a car that’s actually driven on real roads in the real world will always “collect” defects. It can look terrific, but never “flawless.”

I’ve certainly seen many cars I’d rate as “spectacular” but the people working on each of them had tons of skill and experience and an awful lot more than $200 invested in products.


PC.

[imacarnut]

Originally posted by the other pc
Kind’a depends on just how flawless your definition of “FLAWLESS” is.

I’ve never seen a finish that I would call “perfect.” It’s just not physically possible.
Bottom line; I would say that a car that’s actually driven on real roads in the real world will always “collect” defects. It can look terrific, but never “flawless.”
PC.

well said! not to mention... even by just washing as carefully as possible, you're still going to get scratches, all we can do is minimize it as much as possible....

[evo77]

To no avail a few more apps of the M83 did nothing. There were actually a few light scratches in some areas that the 83 didn't smooth out either. I wonder if my paint classifies as hard paint?

Here are a few pics. I took over 75 pics trying to capture this etching which was difficult to do for me. Since I don't own a garage my car is parked outside to the elements 24-7. I believe these etchings are caused by 3 years of dew or rain that the sun burns dry onto my paint.

My car freshly washed with NXT. Can you believe that my car hasn't seen a coat of NXT wax for over 7 months and has only seen hand washings and QD spray?


I removed the spoiler so that it would make buffing the trunk lid a much easier task. Tail lights were removed so that I can buff out scratches with PlastX.

My detail arsenal...


And here are the pics of the etchings. The area that has it the worst is the roof. Its absolutely covered with this.



Trunk lid...

[pcfxer]

Dear sir,

You may consider picking up a NEW bottle of Fine-Cut or Medium-Cut Cleaner. This should help "remove" some of those paint defects even with the DA.

These products have meguiar's diminishing abrassives so remember to work the product until it becomes a very smooth polish. You can rub some of the product in between your fingers to feel how the abrasives work. btw, the NEW bottles of the above products have the ability to be applied with a DA polisher.

[evo77]

I thought M83 was more aggressive than M02?

Can anybody post a link to the aggressiveness scale? I can't find it.

[the other pc]

Yes, #83 is rated as a little bit more aggressive.

Pinpoint etching can easily run deeper than swirls and cobweb scratches because the chemical attack is concentrated at a point while fibers that usually cause scratches spread their force over a larger area.

If you’re very lucky the etching may be shallow enough to remove completely without compromising the integrity of the paint film. I doubt that’s the case.

That’s the sort of thing that requires a rotary, possibly sanding, a great deal of skill and definitely a thickness gauge so you know when to stop.


PC.

[evo77]

Thanks. So is there anything else I can use with the PC to attack this? If not, what is my next step? Move to a rotary and use what product?

[the other pc]

Me, I’d probably use the #83 with an 8006 pad on the rotary. I wouldn’t want to go beyond that without a thickness gauge.

More importantly, keep in mind that pic you showed as being similar to your problem. Mike made that car look an awful lot better but he stopped short of complete removal to avoid taking off too much paint and compromising the coating.


PC.

[rascal]

Originally posted by the other PC
Me, I’d probably use the #83 with an 8006 pad on the rotary. I wouldn't’t want to go beyond that without a thickness gauge.

More importantly, keep in mind that pic you showed as being similar to your problem. Mike made that car look an awful lot better but he stopped short of complete removal to avoid taking off too much paint and compromising the coating.


PC.

If you insist on trying to remove the spots, you can try using ScratchX by hand. Just try to concentrate on a small area and see how that works. Other than that, I suggest using a rotary w/ a 8006 pad and #83.