"detailing guru" on m5 board

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Green Ninja
Looks like he has some good points. I didn't see anyone proving him wrong yet plus he is doing it with good intentions so. if there is something really wrong with what he is saying then someone should come out and say it before other enthusiasts start applying his methods.

He has good intentions, but it's one thing to be a firm believer of your own techniques and it's another to put down others and spread misinformation. Also, the reason why one can't step in to correct him is because you have to be approved by their mods to join their forum (it's been 3 days so I doubt I will be approved; I don't own a M5 ).
Some of his claims are:
Auto soap has only been around for 5 years...better to use just water.
PC/G100 is **** and only good for spreading waxes...won't be able to remove defects.
Rotary with foam pads can't burn through paint...can perform rotary work with a rubbing compound on paint at least 30 times before having to worry; also rotary is safe for a beginner.
3M doesn't use abrasives but uses heat to "blend" scratches.

I'm open to all ideas since a forum is a great place to help people become better, but it looks like he is converting a lot of members into using his methods ie washing with just water and going out and buying a rotary and rubbing compound and using their car (Bimers) as their first test subject.
MOL is a great forum because the second any misinformation is written, Mike or others will step in to give the correct information or direct the information to someone who can. Once again, thanks to everyone here for helping each other.

[bluemoon]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
There are a lot of products on the market that work really well, a person with good skills should actually be able to take any system and make it perform to spec.

What's more important is finding something --> you like <-- and the results from your efforts look good in your eyes.

Now these are truely word to live by. Sometimes the short and simple quotes carry the most meaning.

[vtrader]

Originally posted by Green Ninja
Looks like he has some good points. I didn't see anyone proving him wrong yet plus he is doing it with good intentions so. if there is something really wrong with what he is saying then someone should come out and say it before other enthusiasts start applying his methods.

I have a black Audi A3 that I purchased new in March. Without the sun, the paint looked flawless. But then the sun came out one week after I purchased it and the paint looked horrible. It had DISM and holograms everywhere.

It is interesting that he never:
1) Showed the car in direct sunlight.
2) Did a test area where he taped off one side to prove his point.

There are standards we use to verify that what we are doing is actually working and he did not use any of them to prove his point.

[Green Ninja]

Originally posted by vtrader


It is interesting that he never:
1) Showed the car in direct sunlight.
2) Did a test area where he taped off one side to prove his point.

1) He had photos of an escalade under the sunlight.
2) He also had photos of the bonnet taped in the middle to show the difference between two sides

I'm not his lawyer and i don't agree with everything he said but he had some points. Most ppl got stuck at "wash with only water" part of his thread.

[vtrader]

Originally posted by Green Ninja
1) He had photos of an escalade under the sunlight.
2) He also had photos of the bonnet taped in the middle to show the difference between two sides

I'm not his lawyer and i don't agree with everything he said but he had some points. Most ppl got stuck at "wash with only water" part of his thread.

The video shows him working on a black BMW. The still photos are of an Escalade and the hood taped in the middle is a red car. We do not know what was done to the still photo cars. If there was sunlight available yesterday, why was the black BMW not shown? There is no correlation between the still photos and the video. If sunlight was not available, a $29 dual xeon spotlight would have proved his point.

It just seems ironic that he works on the BMW under cloudy conditions about his new method and then when pressed to show the proof, he shows a different car.

[Green Ninja]

Originally posted by vtrader
The video shows him working on a black BMW. The still photos are of an Escalade and the hood taped in the middle is a red car. We do not know what was done to the still photo cars. If there was sunlight available yesterday, why was the black BMW not shown? There is no correlation between the still photos and the video. If sunlight was not available, a $29 dual xeon spotlight would have proved his point.

It just seems ironic that he works on the BMW under cloudy conditions about his new method and then when pressed to show the proof, he shows a different car.

I don't see any sunlight in the black pick-up pics that Mike Phillips posted yet everyone seems to drool over it. I also think it looks awesome. Let's just be fair on the M5 dude

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Green Ninja
I don't see any sunlight in the black pick-up pics that Mike Phillips posted yet everyone seems to drool over it. I also think it looks awesome. Let's just be fair on the M5 dude

Just to note,

Just like most the work I do, I try to do each detail in one day, truth of the matter is, for some cars I would prefer two days because that last thing you want to do is rush quality work, rushing is for production work.

I started in the early morning on this truck and did a number of different test spots before I got started and I also tried out the Makita BO6040 polisher on the hood.

The location for this detail was in Escondido, about 125 miles from Apple Valle, CA where I live. The truck was horrible swirled out, just like most of the work I get asked to redo and by the time I finished the job it was getting dark.

That is the story of my detailing career. If the truck were closer to where I live, I would have driven back the next day and taken pictures of the results in the sun as I'm not afraid to prove my work.

I never mind anyone questioning my work or the pictures of my work, but please allow me to at a minimum add a comment to explain the background behind them.

Thank...

[rascal]

Originally posted by Green Ninja
I don't see any sunlight in the black pick-up pics that Mike Phillips posted yet everyone seems to drool over it. I also think it looks awesome. Let's just be fair on the M5 dude

Mike has proven that he can make pretty much any car or truck he touches shine like liquid glass. He doesn't need to have the car in board sunlight to prove his work, I've seen it on DVD. The guy on the M5 board hasn't showed me or anybody anything that his techniques work like Mike's has. You know a lot of folks here are going to disagree on the M5 guy b/c of his techinques are way different from any of ours. Nobody is being unfair to this guy, but everybody has their opinion to give on his way of doing detailing. I say we close this topic down and let the M5 guy do his thing. When he burns his paint and needs some real help, he can come over here and ask...but he has to put away his ego first.

[Mike Phillips]

Hey everyone involved in this thread, please remember the forum rules as it's against the rules to bash other people and companies. It's okay to discuss other people and other companies, but let's keep it polite is all.

Thanks!

[rascal]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Hey everyone involved in this thread, please remember the forum rules as it's against the rules to bash other people and companies. It's okay to discuss other people and other companies, but let's keep it polite is all.

Thanks!

Who's bashing?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by rascal
Who's bashing?

After being on the Internet since 1994, I'm only pointing out the rules as I've seen many a flame-war in my time.

I'm not saying anyone here is bashing anyone so far, I'm just reminding everyone of our forum rules so later I don't have to put my Moderating Hat and play clean up.

Again... thanks

[Green Ninja]

Originally posted by rascal
Mike has proven that he can make pretty much any car or truck he touches shine like liquid glass. He doesn't need to have the car in board sunlight to prove his work, I've seen it on DVD. The guy on the M5 board hasn't showed me or anybody anything that his techniques work like Mike's has. You know a lot of folks here are going to disagree on the M5 guy b/c of his techinques are way different from any of ours. Nobody is being unfair to this guy, but everybody has their opinion to give on his way of doing detailing. I say we close this topic down and let the M5 guy do his thing. When he burns his paint and needs some real help, he can come over here and ask...but he has to put away his ego first.

What part of "I also think it looks awesome" don't you understand. It clearly shows that I admire Mike's work or at least the one I see in the photo. I have no doubts about the quality of his work or depth of his knowledge on detailing. I just pointed out a fact that ppl criticised the M5 guy's photos that were taken in the dark (no sunlight) but then loved Mike's photos that were also taken in the dark.

Some of M5 guy's methods might be wrong but I did not see a "I'm the best and I know it all" attitude in his posts. He basically started a thread and ppl replied asking questions so instead of not responding he answered all questions with good intentions. If the haters would like to be more helpful than the M5 guy then they can either reply in M5 thread or in here in point form what he said, why it is wrong and what we should do instead.

[fuzzydd]

I really don't care what he thinks, but hes misinforming a lot of the people on that board who otherwise don't know a lot, unlike everyone here and on autopia. I don't like how hes running around telling everyone to buy a rotary cause its the easiest thing to use in the world, the 7424/G100 is only good for putting wax on, foam produces no heat and therefore makes it impossible to burn paint, etc..

[Zet]

Originally posted by Green Ninja
Some of M5 guy's methods might be wrong but I did not see a "I'm the best and I know it all" attitude in his posts.

How about these quotes, from statements that he made:

• 3M and P21s combo is the BEST...I will put it against ANYTHING!
• I have over $1,000 in waxs/finishing products that have been tried over the past year....yea Zaino, Zymol, Meguiars, the laser BS one, eagle1...ect.......I tell you now.....THIS IS THE COMBO YOU NEED TO USE!
• Your problem is that you used a "random orbital" buffer...like I SAID!!! that is only good for putting on wax! That Porter Cable **** is for the man of the home to save time putting on wax.
• I told you....I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING!!!
• 10 years ago my best friends dad owns a body shop, thats how I know so much...
• Wax your car, use water only, and try it...you car is clean because your just cleaning your top wax coat...the longer you keep it on there, the easier it is to clean. Wax your car every 30-45 days anyway, don't let **** get past your wax ever and you won't need SWIRL REMOVER EVER!
• (In a later post). You will get swirls over time of washing and you can't prevent it.
• auto soap was never around until 5 years ago, it's all about making money.
• Everyone sells, mitts, towels, pre wax coats, wax, microfiber, and so on...when 5 years ago, they just sold wax. I still use old diapers or dedicated 100% cotton towels to take off my wax and don't get swirl marks. (...) Microfiber doesn't work 1/2 as well and takes off wax as it is a towel made to "pick up".
• Because the puffing pads are Foam and not wool, you can't burn the paint.
• Anyone can do this with a high speed buffer and NOT WORRY!
• If you don't have body shop experiance...please keep your weekend warrior opinions to yourself...

Is it possible to have more of a know-it-all attitude than that?

[Green Ninja]

Yeah sounds like he has an attitude when you liste'em like that but his methods work for him and that's what counts, he truly believes in his methods and replies to questions accordingly. I don't think he is doing it on purpose so that ppl go out and burn their paint. I'm in no position to really agree or disagree with him, because I mostly used Meguiars' products ever since, sounds like he experimented with different things and drew his own conclusion. But yes some of his claims don't make sense (and some do).