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**Mike Phillips** · May 4, 2006, 06:36 AM

I always see detailing gurus on other forums bragging about how great Presta is?

Can you take a picture of the swirls with your car in the sun?

Just to note, how hard or how much work it's going to require to remove the swirls will be determined by how deep the swirls are and how hard the paint is.

If you used the Presta compounds with a wool pad on a rotary buffer to buff your car's paint, then you have swirls instilled by both the wool fibers and the abrasives used in the Presta products.

Chances are very good your going to have to re-clean each panel using the rotary buffer first to remove the deeper swirls and the re-polish each panel with the dual action polisher to remove any swirls left by the rotary buffer process.

Then you can go to wax.

I'll post a product and process outline, can you take some digital pictures of the swirls to show us what we're working with?

**Mike Phillips** · May 4, 2006, 06:39 AM

Re: Need help with use of products

Originally posted by AntonH
Wool cutting pads
Presta Polish 1500
Presta Ultra Light Cut
Nu Finnish Scratch Doctor

Throw these products away.

I have been reading the posts in this forum and I realize that MG 80 series polisher will be a good choice but I was wondering if I can achieve the same result with what I already have?

Thanks in advance.

It's doubtful that M80 will be aggressive enough to remove enough paint effectively enough to remove the swirl the wool pad and Presta products instilled.

Here's why...

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything...

In order to remove a scratch out of anything, metal, plastic glass, paint, etc. You must remove material around the scratch until the surface is level or equal to the lowest depths of the scratch or scratches.

The below diagram if for paint, the the same thing applies to just about an surface material or coating.

In essences, you don't really remove a scratch, you remove material around a scratch.

Then the big question is, is the material or coating workable, as in can you abrade small particles of it and leave behind an original looking surface. For example, some things you can abrade, (remove the scratch), but you can never completely remove all of your abrading marks, thus you can't really fix the problem, all you can do is exchange one set of scratches of a different set of scratches.

The next questions is, how thick is the surface material you're working on or the coating. You are limited to what you can do by the thickness of these to things, (surface coating or surface material), and whether or not this surface is workable.

Sometimes you don't know what you can so until you try. It's always a good idea to test your choice of products, applicator materials and application process, (By hand or by machine), to an inconspicuous area. If you cannot make a small area look good with your product, applicator and process, you will not be able to make the entire surface look good. It's always a good idea to test first and error on the side of caution, versus make a mistake you cannot undo.

**Mike Phillips** · May 4, 2006, 06:42 AM

First, if you haven't read this, then please take the time to read and absorb the information so that you will have the right background knowledge to undertake the task at hand...

Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2409

**Mike Phillips** · May 4, 2006, 06:45 AM

Then, read this thread in it's entirety,

Switching from 3M to Meguiar's - Rotary Buffer Questions?

In it you'll find a recipe for success...

Originally posted by Solus
Hi there, well its me again guys, look i been using 3M products and they work good, i just use the Perfect-It II Rubbing compound and the swirl remover, but now i am interest on using Meguiar's and i found Fine Cut , Medium Cut and Heavy cut cleaners, which i don't know why i think are similar as Dual action cleaner/polish, compound power cleaner, and diamond cut compound.

Hi Solus,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online!

The questions is what is the difference between them, i mean i know fine is light compound and heavy is aggressive as dual action is light compound and diamond is the aggressive one, but why there are like 2 light compounds and 2 abrasives, is that because of different paints? like the ones of th body shops that sometimes are harder cuz of too much hardness and cheap paint, and that the stock ones are soft? Or is just preference or what would be a difference?

The primary difference is they type of diminishing abrasive they use, at least that's the difference most people would notice when using them. All of these products, M01, M02, M04, M85, M84, M83, M82, M80, can be used on either clearcoated finishes, or non-clearcoated finishes. The 80's series are more modern technology based upon Meguiar's experience formulating products used at the OEM level. I would also like to add that the formula's for the Traditional Mirror Glaze Products, M02, M04, have also been updated when technology allows. I'm not sure about M01 Medium Cut Cleaner.

Either way, both groups of products work well when used according to directions on the label and which one works best for you will be based upon your personal preferences.

I'm sure a lot of you guys have used these products would you share with me some of your experience with them? plus comments.

I think Travis has contributed a lot to this thread already, thank you Travis!

Sometimes you have to work on the Sun because theres no shade, also many compounds dry too fast cuz of the hot surface and evaporate leaving all sticky the compound on the paint, i don't know if this happens with these compounds.

There are no compounds, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes or pure polishes manufactured by Meguiar's specifically formulated for use in direct sunlight on automotive paints. The sun, or more specifically, the heat created by sunlight will increase surface temperature of the finish and make any product more difficult to work with and affect the performance of the product dramatically. Meguiar's always recommends working on a cool surface in the shade. We understand that when doing mobile detailing work, this isn't always possible, one solution is to do what Joe of
Superior Shine Mobil Auto Detailing does and that is to use a portable canopy when working in direct sunlight.

You can check out Joe's most excellent before and after write-up on how he removed the swirls in the finish of the black BMW using Meguiar's compounds, polishes and waxes in the below thread. (If the below makeover doesn't knock your socks off, nothing will!)

BMW 745il Extreme Make-Over

Also do they hide swirl marks?

Meguiar's compounds, paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes all use Meguiar's Diminishing Abrasive Technology. When used correctly, the diminishing abrasive technology Meguiar's has pioneered since 1901 and continues to improve today, will do two things,

1. Remove the below surface defects, swirls, sanding marks, etchings, oxidation, etc.
2. Remove their own marks as they reduce in size and polish out

like i like to wash the car with a sponge after compound and polish just with water to remove all the dust left by compounding and polishing, and then after that i glaze it and protect it with a pure wax or polymer.(depending on the color)

I been detailing for 2 years started with a rotary buffer burning some paints :P but well i have worked on 2 detail shops and a mobile detail, and i got some experience from there, also by doing some side jobs. I don't burn paint anymore

I would recommend reading the below two threads in the Hot Topics because they discuss in detail working what can and what cannot be done with a rotary buffer as far as creating a swirl free finish.

Need HELP! - How to avoid holograms?

How to avoid swirls and holograms?

In the end, in order to guarantee a completely swirl free finish on a dark colored paint in bright lights, you're going to need to re-polish each panel either by hand or with a dual action polisher to insure any remaining minor swirls induced by the direct drive circular contact between your pad of choice on a rotary buffer and the paint are completely removed. That, or use a coating or two of wax to insure any remaining holograms or swirls are eliminated.

Read the above two threads as there is a lot of good information in them that would not be efficient to try to re-post into this thread.

Here is one example of a selection of products you can start out with when switching over to Meguiar's from 3M. This is not you're only option, but I'm trying to keep it simple with only a few products for you to experiment with.

The M84 Compound Power Cleaner is an easy product to use with a lot of play time. It is formulated to be used with foam pads, not wool pads, so you can avoid using wool and thus avoid instilling wool fiber swirls.

The M80 Speed Glaze is a light cleaner/polish that will remove fine swirls with our W-8006 polishing pad. The key to making this product remove any leftover swirls from the M84 Compound Power Cleaner is to make sure you buff the M84 completely so that you have broken all of the diminishing abrasives down completely. This is the trick to not leaving behind any deeper swirls with Meguiar's compounds. (Don't buff to a dry buff however).

The M80 Speed Glaze is also easy to work with, offers a lot of play time, and easy to wipe off. You can then also use it with the dual action polisher to insure there are no remaining swirls. M80 Speed Glaze produces a very, very, clear and glossy finish, perfect for applying your LSP to.

Again, the below recommendations are not the only products or method of tackling every car, but it is a system that will work on most cars that you will come across and 99.9% of the time, it will produce professional results you can be proud of and your customers will love you for and recommend you to their friends.

It's also the system I used to remove the swirls on this clearcoated Corvette and restore a swirl-free, crystal clear finish.

1999 Corvette - Remove Swirls and Scratches

~~~~~~~~~

First Step Products and Process
Rotary Buffer for removing serious below surface defects,

Compound Power Cleaner
SOFTBUFFâ„¢ Cutting Pad

Second Step Products and Process
Rotary buffer for removing any residual swirls or haze left by the first step process.

Speed Glaze
Soft Buff® Foam Polishing Pads

Third Step Products and Process
Dual Action Polisher to insure a completely swirl free finish in direct sun or bright lights.

Electric Dual Action Polisher
Speed Glaze
Soft Buff® Foam Polishing Pads

At this step, use the above same products that you used with a rotary buffer in your second step process, only now substitute a different machine to apply them with. For this step, use a dual action polisher to re-polish each panel using the oscillating action of this type of machine to polish and remove any remaining swirls left by the rotary buffer to insure a completely swirl-free finish.

Last Step Products and Process
By hand or using a dual action polisher to apply your choice of wax, also known as your L.S.P., Last Step Product, this is the last product you apply and remove before standing back and saying to yourself, it is finished. Then, turn the car back over to the excited owner!

Electric Dual Action Polisher
SOFTBUFFâ„¢ Finishing Pad

Meguiar's LSP's

Here are a few options for last step products if you've performed a multiple-step process as outlined above.

NXT Generation„¢ Tech Wax

NXT Generation Tech Wax Paste

Gold Class Clear Coat Car Wax

Deep Crystal System Carnauba Wax

Hi-Tech Yellow Wax

Synthetic Sealant

Polymer Sealant

~~~~~~~~~~

This reply took a little while to write, I hope it helps...

**Mike Phillips** · May 4, 2006, 06:47 AM

And of course, this one will help you also...

Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

By the way, the white pad that came with your PC is really only good for using to remove wax with a bonnet placed over it assuming the pad is still clean. Like this,

**AntonH** · May 4, 2006, 10:18 AM

Thanks for the quick respond Mike. I will start reading the info you sent. I might post more questions after .
Thanks Again.

**AntonH** · May 10, 2006, 08:04 AM

Hi Mike,
Attached are few pictures of my car you requested.
Thanks.

Attached Files

dsc01251resized2.jpg (149.5 KB, 207 views)

**AntonH** · May 10, 2006, 08:06 AM

Here is another:

Attached Files

dsc01252resized2.jpg (148.6 KB, 163 views)

**AntonH** · May 10, 2006, 08:10 AM

Another one. The hood.

Attached Files

dsc01253resized.jpg (126.2 KB, 166 views)

**Mike Phillips** · May 10, 2006, 08:22 AM

Yep, that thar car has swirls!

All the information I've posted applies to removing these swirls. Ditch the Presta products, get yourself some quality Meguiar's products and go to town on this car and do it over.

**AntonH** · May 10, 2006, 08:34 AM

Thanks Mike.
Do I start with #83?
What pad should I use for each product? Do I just use PC?
Should I clean the wax with Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner or 83 or 80 will take care of removing the wax?

**Mike Phillips** · May 10, 2006, 09:02 AM

Try starting with M83 with a W-8006 yellow foam polishing pad, see if this will remove them.

I'm going offline as I have to drive to work for our Open Garage event tonight so I'll be offline for a few hours.

You can call me on my cell phone at

949-533-0225

if you like.

Mike

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Need help removing compounding swirls in black BMW

Need help removing compounding swirls in black BMW

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