Humble Suggestion Relative to PC Pressure

[Monk]

I finally started getting results with the PC. The talk about pressure, honestly, was not particularly helpful to me. However, I have a suggestion going forward.

When I started having success, I noted that the rotation of the pad was about 1/2 to 1 revolution per second. I just watched a DVD last night video, and it seems like the nice fellow there had about the same rotation. He started out marking a line with a marker to show that the pad could be stopped with his hand. When he started to work the M80, he used this same pad, so I was able to see the rate of rotation bywatching the line come around, and it "seemed" that it averaged in this range. Maybe he posts to this forum and could give a better approximation from first-person account! So, IMHO, it would be most helpful to say "Apply enough pressure on a setting of 5, such that the rotation of the pad drops to about 1 per second." (or 2 per second, or whatever it is--I know it varies).

A similar observation applies to armspeed. It seems that if you are working an area of about 16 inches across, it takes about two to 4 seconds to move from the right edge to the left.

Anyway, just my opinion, and a humble one it is. But this information would have been a very useful method of communicating the pressure technique and the armspeed technique.

Hopefully I have revolutionized PC training on the World Wide Web.

[bene vita]

Monk,

Great post.

That information sure clears up the amount of pressure to apply. I could never figure it out, but it sure does make sense now. Thanks for passing this on.

[Monk]

Please don't go by what I said--it is more for discussion purposes. I am hoping that one of the pros will weigh in on this, and confirm/deny/modify/explicate, etc.

[Monk]

Comments?

[Mike Phillips]

It would probably be best to keep comments and questions about the DVD over on ShowCarGarage.com and not here as this was a project of ShowCarGarage and not Meguiar's.

Thanks!

p.s.

If you post your comments/questions over there, I'll answer them.

[PaintPolisher]

Hi,
I am not an authority of any sort here – just my bucks worth of comments on the DVD.
Double checking my notes now and I did a quick write up to myself concerning my observation of pressure and arm techniques Mike was using with and without the PC.
1. Mark my pads
2. Controlling rotation speed of the pad by applying various hand, forearm, shoulder, upper body, trunk muscles and then really hunkerin’ down when using his legs. Mike made sure that he hunkered the PC down to no rotation or pad movement and by listening to the PC motor bog down I can tell about the correct pressure I should be using for the various pressure techniques he uses and most likely he did these unconsciously and we are lucky enough that Richard captured this on the camera which was great for me. I am a trained observer of the human body in motion, relaxed and at stop
3. When applying or removing product by hand or with the PC its all muscle memory and body balance so we will all have a slight variation of Mike’s techniques which he discusses.
4. You gotta do what works for you.
Coach

[Aminga]

Just a variation on a theme her but I put my mark in the backing plate. Maybe I'm lazy but it stays when I change pads.

[the other pc]

Whoa there Aminga, you're making it way too easy.


PC.

[PaintPolisher]

Hi,
Aminga, you are so smart – a better technique by marking the backing plate, thanks.
Coach

[Monk]

"It would probably be best to keep comments and questions about the DVD over on ShowCarGarage.com and not here as this was a project of ShowCarGarage and not Meguiar's."

I went back and edited my posts and subject line. But could you comment on the rotation speed thing?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Monk


I went back and edited my posts and subject line. But could you comment on the rotation speed thing?

First, to help you with the forum and posting, when you want to quote someone, then click on the Quote button and it will quote the message posted by the person and also include their name so it makes more sense in your post.

Also, I think I addressed most of your questions in my reply on page 3 of this thread, it is the 7th post down and somewhat exhaustive in it's explanation if you care to read the entire thing...


http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/sho...0&pagenumber=3


Note the red portion I highlighted...

Originally posted by Mike Phillips


Now here's the skinny...

Most people will agree that the dual action polisher is more effective at removing swirls and scratches out of automotive finishes as compared to doing it by hand. We demonstrate this every weekend at our Saturday classes and over the last 2.5 years of these classes here at Meguiar's and for the last decade or two by our Professional Field Reps out in the field, Mike Pennington's 3-Day classes and the work our Special Events Team does at car shows all over the U.S., not to mention our partners world-wide at their events, Meguiar's has converted a lot of people that were die-hard by-hand-only enthusiasts and detailers over to machine polishing enthusiasts and professionals.

Most people will also agree that the dual action polisher will produce better results faster than a person can produce the same results by hand, and with less energy on their part.

Most people will also agree that the dual action polisher is a safer alternative to using a rotary buffer and that it doesn't require anywhere near the same skill level or experience to use.

So while all of the above is true, (if you disagree feel free to state this and explain your reasons why), it's still not a perfect tool for the absolute goals people want to achieve.

By absolute goals I mean that some people want their car to be shiny, (but it's okay if it still has swirls and scratches), while others want a 100% swirl-free, scratch-free, flawless mirror finish.

And while this was in another context, it also applies to the issue your bring up about rotating function.

It's not a perfect tool, results with this tool vary greatly by skill level and experience.

I know people like Joe aka Superior Shine and myself who can great results using this tool know matter what the goal is and what the circumstances are, but it's not a perfect tool and to make up for it's deficiencies the operator has to learn how to work with it or find another option, i.e. go back to hand polishing, use a rotary buffer, or find a tool you like better and gives you the results you're looking for with the ease of use you expect.j

How's that?

[OctaneGuy]

IMO, marking the pad or marking the backing plate is done only when you are learning. I mean, once you've used the tool for awhile, you can tell by sound and feel how effective it is. Mike marked the pad only for demonstration purposes. But hey if it helps to mark the backing plate, by all means, go for it.

Originally posted by Aminga
Just a variation on a theme her but I put my mark in the backing plate. Maybe I'm lazy but it stays when I change pads.

[Monk]

I guess what I am trying to say is a positive--that I started getting results when I had enough pressure to where the rotation was about .5 to 1 in a second, and that a video I saw confirmed this, and that it might be helpful as an additional way of describing the correct pressure, instead of just saying "pounds of pressure", to say "press hard enough so that the pad rotates at about X per second".

[OctaneGuy]

There are many ways to describe the amount of pressure needed. With a brand new pad, the pressure is about the equivalent of pressing the backing plate 50% into the pad, however once the pad becomes saturated this is no longer true. It's also not true if I'm using a W9006 pad vs. W8006.

There really is no positive way to demonstrate the amount of pressure besides just saying you need to apply about this amount, and listen to the sound of the motor. Listen to the motor with no pressure and listen to it under full load, then back off about 50% until the motor pitch is about half way in between.

But again, that's not necessarily accurate. The way to know if you're using the PC properly is by the results. Do your test spot, and if you are getting the results you hope for, then that's all that matters. Glad you found a way that works for you.

Richard

Originally posted by Monk
I guess what I am trying to say is a positive--that I started getting results when I had enough pressure to where the rotation was about .5 to 1 in a second, and that a video I saw confirmed this, and that it might be helpful as an additional way of describing the correct pressure, instead of just saying "pounds of pressure", to say "press hard enough so that the pad rotates at about X per second".