M09 & M80 Equivalent?

[sloban]

Mike and 2hotford, I guess you missed it, so I'll repost it (it's from earlier in this thread).

Originally posted by sloban
...
Here's a concrete example: I'm dealing with a black car with relatively hard clearcoat that has a lot of nasty swirls and fine scratches. Nothing that catches the fingernail, though. M09 on a dual-action polisher won't touch it, even after 6 applications.

So I am going up to M83, which I take it is a moderately cutting cleaner/polish. My understanding is that with a dual-action polisher, this is the most aggressive compound I would use on swirls/scratches on hard clearcoat paint. True or False?

Then, I'll most likely need to follow that with a lighter polish, right?
But what lighter polish? M09 Swirl Remover? M80 Speed Glaze? M03 Machine Glaze?

Hope you can help. -- Scott

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Scott,

My apologies...

You got me!

I've been so busy lately offline that when I got back online I merely skimmed this thread... not a good thing, but sometimes that's what I do... so yes, I missed that portion. Please accept my apologies...

I stay busier than I can explain and once in a while it catches up to me and this is one of those cases.

Here's the skinny...

M83 is a fairly aggressive cleaner/polish, at this time it is the most aggressive product we recommend for use with the dual action polisher our of our product line.

If M83 does not remove the defects then it's time to either move on to the rotary buffer or perhaps find a Professional who can use the rotary buffer for you or live with the defects.

Often time however, with the right technique, you can remove the defects using the dual action polisher and M83 and in some cases it will require more than one application, it just depends upon how deep the defects are an how hard the paint is.

In a nutshell, you'll find you car's paint either reacts well to M83 and the results look good enough to go straight to wax, or you'll experience micro-marring and you'll have to re-polish using a light cleaner/polish like the M80 or M82 or even the M09.

Last week, one of the paints that was hard to remove the defects out of was an Audi and we ended up using M66 Cleaner/Wax with the dual action polisher to remove some fine swirls as all of the above cleaner/polishes were still leaving micro-marring in the finish even with a soft, W-9006 finishing pad on the 4.0 setting with light pressure.

The M09 is very, very gentle so I'm not surprised it had little or no effect, best results for removing any kind of scratch out of a clear coat finish with this product is obtained by using a rotary buffer, not a dual action polisher.

The M83 is a very aggressive cleaner/polish compared to the M09 and the M80 is quite a bit more aggressive than the M09 but not close to the M83

On a personal note, the only time I ever use M82 or M09 is if I find the paint I'm working on to be soft and senstive to micro-marring. Other than that I stick with M83 and M80


In keeping with the philosophy of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, we would typically recommend M80 be tired first over the M83, if this didn't work then you could substitute the M83 for the M80 and try that.

If you decide to go with the M83 first, then I would suggest inspecting the finish and if it looks like you still need to polish out some micro-marring from left behind from the M83, then re-polish each panel with the M80 Speed Glaze and after this apply your choice of wax.

Hope this helps... sorry for the confusion...

Another case of typing too fast and thinking too slow...

[Tim Lingor]

Just to reply...

My comments were in the form of a generality explaining Mike's questions of why we need to know.... .

As the Super Moderator of MOL, it is my job to ensure that the atmosphere of the site stays friendly and helpful. As I said, "And sometimes, misunderstanding of what is being asked for or what has been already answered, can happen. Obviously, talking with someone face to face would be a whole lot easier."

With that said, we do our best to help. Hopefully Mike's reply answers your questions.

Tim

[sloban]

Thanks everyone for your patient replies.

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Last week, one of the paints that was hard to remove the defects out of was an Audi and we ended up using M66 Cleaner/Wax with the dual action polisher to remove some fine swirls as all of the above cleaner/polishes were still leaving micro-marring in the finish even with a soft, W-9006 finishing pad on the 4.0 setting with light pressure...

Mike, given my fairly extensive experience with Audis I found this very surprising.

What year was it and was it (to the best of your knowledge) OE paint or a repaint?

My general experience has been that with a D/A type machine even #80 is, if anything too mild for the factory Spies-Hecker paint used by Audi during the model years with which I'm familiar.

I'm wondering if there's been a change of some kind; this sounds like the way some of their "corporate cousins" from Porsche and VW have been lately.

Don't mean to put anybody on the spot, just curious...this is the other end of the scale from the '00 and '01 Audis I currently have; even their repainted areas (baked Spies-Hecker paint, but of course it's different stuff than they use at the factory) are hard enough that #80 barely corrects anything by D/A and leaves no micromarring even with an 8006 pad.

[troutstreamguy]

Mike and Tim,
You guys are awesome. Thanks for taking the time to explain the same things many different times and in many differnt ways. I find myself understanding what you are talking about the first time, and sometimes I don't get it until the fith, or sixth, or even the 100th time.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Accumulator
Mike, given my fairly extensive experience with Audis I found this very surprising.

What year was it and was it (to the best of your knowledge) OE paint or a repaint?

My general experience has been that with a D/A type machine even #80 is, if anything too mild for the factory Spies-Hecker paint used by Audi during the model years with which I'm familiar.

Factory paint, I don't remember the make and year, I do remember spending a lot of time dialing in a system for the owner to use to achieve a flawless finish, his expectations are very high and the finish on his car was actually very, very nice, but not perfect. We ended up finding the combination of M09 with a W-9006 finishing pad on a rotary buffer followed by M66 on the G100 with a finishing pad to produce optimum results.

Here's the car...

[Accumulator]

Thanks for the reply Mike. The year is within my experience (I can't pinpoint it either) but not the model, and IIRC those are built in different facilities from what I work on. Just goes to show how you can't always generalize.

FWIW, while I always think "clearcoat is clearcoat" (there's that generalizing again ) I've seen a *lot* of S4s in that Nagaro blue with dreadful marring. Enough that perhaps it's not just a coincidence. Never worked on one though, but I'll keep your experience in mind if I do. BTW, that's the best looking detail on that color I've ever seen

#9/9006/rotary is one of those old combos that *still* comes in handy, huh? Thanks again for elaborating.