Not impressed with the Deep Crystal system

[Accident]

For you last question, the only way to really tell if it will make a good difference, in your opinion, is to do a test spot and compare the two side by side. After using the NXT wax, tape off a section and then apply the caranuba wax that you are using. Look at the two next to each other and decide if that it the look that you are trying to get. Also, for me it is easier to tell on flat surfaces, I usually try things on my trunk or hood. There was a post that talked about this, I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Here is the link, again from the information station:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1648

[TH0001]

Thanks for your help

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by TH0001
Mike, thanks for the link to the 5-step system. I have had experince detailing cars previously.

I gave you that link to get you up to speed with Meguiar's terminology, not the worlds, since you're working with Meguiar's products.

3)I thought I was polishing with the "polish"

See my above answer which relates to all of the information contained in the 5-Step Paint Care Cycle under Step 3 Polishing

I am familiar with how cleaning, prepping and so forth works, I was just confused because the clear coat scrub says "swirl remover" and since it is labeled as a "clear coat scrub" I figured it would remove the swirl marks (which aren't particularly deep on my vehicle) on my clear coat.

Well Clear Coat Body Scrub does contain diminishing abrasives, and it will remove light swirls, but how well it works depends on a number of factors like paint hardness, depth of swirl, application method and skill of the person doing the work.

If Clear Coat Body Scrub doesn't remove the swirls when applied correctly, it doesn't mean the product doesn't work, it means you need a more aggressive product, of a better application method and/or process.

I am also confused, with out starting anything, that how can something that has been around for 25 years be labeled as "clear coat scrub" when clear coats where not really around back then.

I was referring to the Deep Crystal System when you wrote,

• Originally posted by TH0001
  I bought the 3 stage system (deep crstyal or whatever, 1-body scrub, 2-polish, 3-carnuba wax).
  
  I did the body scrub by hand, polished using a fine polishing bonnet on a D/A buffer, then applied the carnuba wax using a wool bonnet on the D/A buffer. The reflection was amazing, a deep shine.
  
  Todd

But actually, clear coats have been around for about 25 years as the big three in America started experimenting with them in either the late 1970's or the early 1980's, it's hard to come to an exact date. For example however, here's the FACTORY clear coat finish on a Corvette I detailed for The Vette Lady.





2006 - 1982 = 24 years

I guess after I hit the surface with the claybar/body scrub I should have used a machine polish, either 80 or 83 to remove the swirls, or used the swirl remover by hand.

M83 and M80 are both Cleaner/Polishes, see The 5-Step Paint Care Cycle, under Step 3 Polishing, and they have been used to remove swirls using both the rotary buffer and the dual action polisher effectively for years with hundreds of pictures of the awesome results they produce...

Both of the shots were taken by me after machine polishing with M80 to remove swirls. Fairly heavy swirls on the Chip Foose Overhaulin Challenger, and very light swirls from the Panic Parrot. There is no wax on the finish of either of these cars at this point.

As far as my detailing twice a year comment, what I ment specifically is that I normally was my car every one or two weeks (using the clay bar every 3rd time) and wax it every 2-3 months (usually 2 with carnuba wax). But as I stated, I really don't wanna buff my car with the three stage sytem every time, usually twice a year to take it all the way down.

Every time you wash your car you remove some amount of wax from the surface, it's the nature of the beast. If you clay your car you also remove anything sitting on top of the surface including your wax.

One final question, sorry. I really like the deep gloss of Carnauba wax on dark paints (from my experience carnuba wax is unparrelled compared to synthetic waxes for gloss on darker colored vechiles), so would it be benefical at all to apply carnuba wax over the next gen wax?

A lot of people have applied M26 over NXT Tech Wax and posted favorable comments, if you're interested in trying something like this, read this article from the Hot Topics forum.

Topping NXT or other products

[Mike Phillips]

If you want to remove swirls by hand, then ScratchX is the way to go, you have to carve out little areas at a time and then overlap your areas as you move around the car. We demonstrate how to use ScratchX every weekend at our classes, it is a technique-specific product, that is you have to apply the product and then work it against the finish, it is not a wipe-on, wipe-off type product.

You might also consider purchasing a tool like the G100 Dual Action Polisher if you don't already own one, they definitely take all the work out of machine cleaning and polishing the paint and product better results faster than you can with your hands or any other tool when used as the last tool used in the process.

Here's what you can do with ScratchX by hand...

How To Remove Swirls By Hand


The below write-up was taken from page three of this Saturday Detailing Class at Meguiar's where approximately 25 people witnessed the products shown below, applied and removed using the correct techniques to remove the gross rotary buffer swirls and restore a swirl free finish by hand.

San Diego Mercedes-Benz club at Meguiar's!


After selecting two Mercedes-Benz automobiles to work on, one being Tom's, we broke for a pizza lunch. After everyone had their fill of pizza and something cold to drink, it was time to re-gather in Meguiar's Garage to see what we could do with the gross swirls in Tom's recently painted hood.




Often times when the topic of removing swirls is being discussed on our discussion forum, or some other detailing forum, it centers around the dual action polisher, foam buffing pads and somebody's compound or polish. Yet many people don't own a dual action polisher. So here at Meguiar's Garage, we like to show people how to use the what they already own... their hands!



Like most detailing enthusiasts, I personally love a challenge, and with Tom's car, I believe most people would agree, his car's finish presents a challenge!

BEFORE - 700 Pixel-wide cropped out section from an un-touched, original photo of rotary buffer swirls in a clear coat finish.





Using some painters tape, we taped-off a section of the hood to separate the before and after results. Then, we applied three, well worked in applications of Meguiar's ScratchX all applied by hand using Meguiar's High-Tech Applicator Pad






The secret to removing swirls by hand using Meguiar's ScratchX is all in your technique. You see in order to remove swirls out of your car's finish, you need to remove a little bit of paint. If we we're to look at a horizontal view of what gross rotary buffer swirls look like in the paint, it would look something like the diagram below. In order to remove these below surface defects, (swirls), you need to remove enough paint from the finish to level the upper surface with the *****t depths of the swirls until you've restored the finish to a flat, level surface.




To do this by hand with ScratchX, you need to,

• * Apply to a small section at a time
  * First spread the ScratchX evenly over the area you're going to work (before working it in)
  * Work the microscopic diminishing abrasives against the finish applying a little passion behind the applicator pad
  * Repeat this process with multiple applications after first removing the residue from each application after working it against the finish

Remember that Meguiar's paint cleaners, like ScratchX do not need to dry before removing. Drying adds no benefit. The only Meguiar's paint products that need to dry before removing are Meguiar's waxes.

Technique Tip

The question is often asked,

"Which direction should I move my hand when applying a Meguiar's paint cleaner?"

A common mis-conception, often espoused on other discussion forums, or by some car care product manufactures, is the technique of only rubbing a product in a certain direction to keep all of your scratches going in the same direction.

Meguiar's teaches that if the products you're using are non-abrasive, that is they are not instilling scratches into the finish, as such, it shouldn't matter which direction you move your hand!

If the products you're using are inflicting scratches into your car's finish, the correct thing to do is to stop using the product! Don't try to camouflage the scratches to your eyes by instilling them in straight-lines as determined by the movement of your hand.

ScratchX can be applied using straight-lines or circular motion and for this particular demonstration we used a combination of both.

Removing ScratchX using Meguiar's Supreme Shine Microfiber after working the product against the finish until the product has broken down, turned somewhat clear and begun to dissipate.




At Meguiar's Saturday Detailing 101 classes, we go through a power point presentation that covers a wide spectrum of detailing topics, one of which is Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle , which includes;

• Step 1 Wash
  Step 2 Clean
  Step 3 Polish
  Step 4 Protect
  Step 5 Maintain

After cleaning the paint with a paint cleaner like ScratchX, we then apply a pure polish, in this case, Deep Crystal Polish which is a non-abrasive pure polish.



In Meguiar's line, we offer two types of polishes, cleaner/polishes, which contain a diminishing abrasive, and pure polishes, which are completely non-abrasive and are used solely for the purpose of creating brilliant gloss. Deep Crystal Polish is a pure polish.



The way you apply a pure polish is akin to applying a skin lotion to your skin. That is you apply the polish to a small section at a time, work the product in thoroughly.



After thoroughly, (but gently with care and passion), remove any excess polish with a clean, soft premium quality microfiber polishing cloth or 100% cotton towel.



Like ScratchX a paint cleaner, it is not necessary to let a pure polish like Deep Crystal Polish dry before removing it. Allowing a polish to dry will not add anything beneficial to the process, so after you work it in well, go a head and remove it.


At this point, we have cleaned and polished the finish. The cleaning step removed the swirls and the polishing step restored optical clarity, depth, reflectivity, richness of color and brilliant gloss. Next we're going to apply a coating of Meguiar's new NXT Generation Tech Wax Paste



NXT Generation Tech Wax Paste is identical to NXT Generation Tech Wax Liquid except that it comes in a paste form. There are two types of paste waxes, the difference is in their consistency. The practical application difference is in how you remove them from the can and then apply them.

With a cleaner/wax (paste), like Meguiar's A12 Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax you can scoop out a small amount and with your applicator pad and then apply it to the finish and work it in.



With paste waxes like Gold Class Clear Coat Wax Paste, M26 Hi Tech Yellow Wax, and NXT Generation Tech Wax Paste, instead of scooping wax out of the can, you can twist, or spin your wax applicator against the wax while it's in the can and this little bit of agitation will help to liquefy the wax and enable it to seep, or penetrate into your applicator pad whereupon making it easier to apply to the finish.





Paste waxes like NXT Tech Generation Wax offer good gliding action and tend to apply very easy. Remember a little bit goes a long ways and it's important to try to apply a uniform, thin coating.



After applying the Tech Wax Paste and allowing it to dry, we removed it using a Supreme Shine Microfiber polishing cloth and the Tom backed his Mercedes-Benz out into the sun where everyone could look at the results and see with their own two eyes what can be accomplished by hand with the right products and the correct techniques.







Here's the owner Tom inspecting closely!



And here I am capturing the results with our Sony Digital which does an excellent job of capture swirls in the sun.




Before



After
















Perfect? No.

dramatically improved? Yes!

Most importantly, we fixed by hand what someone else inflicted with a rotary buffer.

Meguiar's products, applied and removed using the correct techniques will outperform the competition hands down and give your car a swirl-free show car shine!

[TH0001]

Thanks for anwesing my questions Mike, I appericate your patience.

I have an orbital polisher that I got for Christmas, but it only came with two bonnets, I "polishing bonnet" that was like smooth cloth and a "wax" bonnet that was wool.

I might step up to the 100 model that you guys hype I guess, if I cannot fight foam pads for mine. Thanks agian...

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by TH0001
Thanks for anwesing my questions Mike, I appericate your patience.

I have an orbital polisher that I got for Christmas, but it only came with two bonnets, I "polishing bonnet" that was like smooth cloth and a "wax" bonnet that was wool.

I might step up to the 100 model that you guys hype I guess, if I cannot fight foam pads for mine. Thanks agian...

The Orbital Buffer questions come up enough that I wrote a little article on the differences, it's worth the read...

Rotary vs. PC vs. Regular Orbital Buffer

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by TH0001
Thanks for anwesing my questions Mike, I appericate your patience.

I have an orbital polisher that I got for Christmas, but it only came with two bonnets, I "polishing bonnet" that was like smooth cloth and a "wax" bonnet that was wool.

I might step up to the 100 model that you guys hype I guess, if I cannot fight foam pads for mine. Thanks agian...

Just a follow-up, what other machines do you have besides the orbital you received for Christmas? Have you stepped up to the G100 Dual Action Polisher yet?

[TH0001]

Mike, you dont remember me