ColorX on Faded Clear-Coat?

[smokingGun]

Hi-

I did a friend a favor and washed/polished her black '96 Altima while she was out of town. It's a beater that's parked outdoors and only gets washed every few weeks with Dawn and old t-shirts. As you can imagine, there are patchy spots of clear-coat failure on the roof and rear bumper.

I tried ColorX on it to restore some of the gloss, but noticed that the old sock I was using to apply it quickly gummed up with a thick tarry black mess. Is this the oxidized paint? Since the clearcoat is already compromised, am I accelerating the failure by using a harsh cleaner like ColorX?

Also, after I wiped the residue off, I noticed streaks of that tarry gummy gook still left, so I applied a second coat of ColorX. On a compromised finish is it possible to rub right through the clear-coat with additional applications of ColorX?

I've used ColorX before on a couple well-maintained late-model cars with very little color ruboff on sock or foam applicators, so I never thought it was that aggressive.

[Murr1525]

Well, I have never found COlorX to be harsh, but it is mildly abrasive, unlike DC#1.

The black mess could be oxidized paint, dirt in the pores, or even dirt on the surface coming off. Also, if the 'mess' was coming off the failed areas, then you were also picking up black from the base coat paint.

Assuming most of the mess was from the 'good areas', for a situation like that, you may find you need a dedicated cleaner, like DC#1, etc. Just sounds like lots of dirt to get out.

And no, it shouldnt acelerate any failure. Will extend the life of whats left, if anything.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: ColorX on Faded Clear-Coat?

Originally posted by smokingGun
Hi-

I did a friend a favor and washed/polished her black '96 Altima while she was out of town. It's a beater that's parked outdoors and only gets washed every few weeks with Dawn and old t-shirts. As you can imagine, there are patchy spots of clear-coat failure on the roof and rear bumper.

Similar to the below pictures?

I tried ColorX on it to restore some of the gloss, but noticed that the old sock I was using to apply it quickly gummed up with a thick tarry black mess. Is this the oxidized paint?

What color is the car to start with? Typically, if the clear coat is missing, it's Game Over.

Meguiaur's doesn't as a policy recommend using socks to apply or remove our products. We do recommend using foam, microfiber and 100% cotton applicators. If the sock you're using is 100% cotton and you turn it inside out to expose a nap similar to a cotton terry cloth towel this would be close to useing a 100% cotton towel, (or a piece of a 100% cotton towel).

Nothing you pour out of a bottle, or scoop out of a can is going to fix the problem or improve the appearance. No amount of polishing is going to restore the gloss. A clear coat finish gets its gloss from the clear coat. The color coat under the clear coat in a 2-stage paint system is flat. When the clear coat has deteriorated to the point of no longer being present over the color coat, the color coat will look flat or matte.

This color coat, or base coat will then oxidize and when you rub it with a car care product and a sock or some other type of cloth, it will impart itself onto the cloth, that is it will transfer onto the cloth. So if you're working on a blue car the cloth will show blue color or pigment.

It can appear as having black or blackness to it depending on things like how dirty it is, (paint gets dirty over time when exposed to outdoor environments), or if it's a metallic finish and the metallic particles are aluminum. If it's a metallic finish with aluminum particles and the basecoat is exposed to to the environment, (the clear coat is missing), then the aluminum particles will oxidize and turn black and these particles when rubbed with a car care product, (paint cleaner, cleaner/polish or cleaner/wax), they will impart blackness to your cloth as anyone that has ever polished oxidized aluminum will tell you, it will turn your cloth black or actually a very dark gray.

Since the clearcoat is already compromised, am I accelerating the failure by using a harsh cleaner like ColorX?

Yes. Of course let's keep this in the right perspective, once a paint finish gets to this point how bad it is kind of becomes relative as it's past the point of no return. Kind of like how people talk about a pregnancy, there is no middle ground, a women is either pregnant, or she's not. She can never be a little pregnant, or [more pregnant, she either is or she isn't pregnant. Likewise, the clear coat finish on this car is either deteriorated past the point of no return or it's not. If the clear coat has deteriorated then the only honest fix is to repaint the car.

Also, after I wiped the residue off, I noticed streaks of that tarry gummy gook still left, so I applied a second coat of ColorX.

Streaks, splotchiness, downright ugly is what you can expect from any product applied and rubbed-in to a deteriorated basecoat finish.

On a compromised finish is it possible to rub right through the clear-coat with additional applications of ColorX?

On a compromised finish, there is little or no clear coat to rub through. If there is a smattering or clear coat left over the basecoat, then yes, rubbing on this clear coat with anything with the intention to try to improve it will remove what's left. This would include spit on a sock. Rubbing on the basecoat with any creamy, liquid product will tend to remove pigment, transfer it to your cloth and not improve the appearance one iota to most peoples eyes.

I've used ColorX before on a couple well-maintained late-model cars with very little color rub off on sock or foam applicators, so I never thought it was that aggressive.

ColorX is a professional quality strong cleaner wax. When rubbed against a clear coat in good condition it will create a clear, high gloss appearance. ColorX is a very popular product in our line and that's because when used correctly it performs as claimed on the label.

There are no Meguiar's products that should be applied to a compromised clear coat finish. Meguiar's paint care products should only be applied to clear coat finishes that are still intact. When used in this manner you will not, and should not see any color transferred to your sock because the clear coat by definition contains no color or pigment.

ColorX is an aggressive cleaner/wax but let's define aggressive lest anyone should get the wrong impression. When we use the word aggressive to describe the cleaning ability of a strong cleaner/wax like ColorX were talking in relationship to our other cleaner/wax, Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax, which is a mild cleaner wax, our ColorX is a strong or aggressive cleaner/wax.

ColorX uses both chemical cleaners and diminishing abrasives to remove above and below surface defects from any automotive finish whether it's a clear coat finish or a single stage finish. However it is also gentle in that if you pour some out into your hand and feel it between your fingers you will feel a product that is smooth & creamy, very much like a skin lotion.

Now the enemy would like you to think it's aggressive like an old-fashioned rubbing compound that utilizes sharp, hard abrasives that scratch and scour the paint.

ColorX is an aggressive, or strong cleaner/wax but its also gentle to the paint. It can be used on a brand new car in excellent condition as you need to remember, any quality cleaner/wax relies not only on its cleaning ability to clean the paint, but its performance is also greatly affected by the manner in which it's applied.

If you apply it gently and with care it is a light cleaner/wax. If you apply it with a sock and rub really hard it is a strong cleaner/wax. The cleaning ability of a cleaner/wax like ColorX and thus the results from a product like ColorX are completely dependent upon the user.

[smokingGun]

Thanks for the quick reply.

The car in question is a black Altima with a few white spots on the roof and rear bumper similar to that top photo, but nowhere as severe. Since this car has never been polished or waxed before, I was trying to see whether the black gummy gook was from the basecoat or just built-up surface contamination. Now I know!

I guess for future reference on cars with compromised clear-coats, is it better just to wash and use a mild wax/polymer like NXT? Or is even NXT too aggressive? Maybe just a wax-as-u-dry spray product?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by smokingGun

I guess for future reference on cars with compromised clear-coats, is it better just to wash and use a mild wax/polymer like NXT?

If you're waxing cars for money, the best thing to do is to turn-down cars in which the paint has un-fixable problems to start with.

If you're waxing cars for fun and the paint has un-fixable problems, then there really isn't anything you can pour out of a bottle, or scoop out of a can that is going to be the right solution to the problem.

NXT Tech Wax isn't aggressive. I guess if you have to apply something over the top of paint that has no hope, then NXT is as good or better than anything else. Just don't hope for, or look for any improvements as it's likely there will not be any, with this wax or any wax.

In the future, if possible, putting a car on a regular washing and waxing schedule is the best practice for maintain a car's finish in new condition. I know that this can be out of your control if family, friends or customers are bringing you their cars and they're already in bad condition. The next best thing is to educate them on the importance of proper auto car and even share with them the link to this forum.

Best of luck to you....