Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

[NYShine]

I have a Black '05 Sonata with some old Tree Sap Etching and Water Marks mostly on the hood. How can I go about removing these ?
Would the Meguiar's DA power system do the trick ? If so, which compound ? I have a corded 2500 RPM Drill.

[Top Gear]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

That should work well with Ultimate Compound, which is easy to find in stores. Make sure you watch the videos on the main Meguiar's site.

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Thank you. Please give me some advice as to how I should go about trying to remove the tree sap etchings. I believe they appear to be under the clear coat since I cant feel them.
How aggressive should I get ? Which pads do I need ? I'm concerned with causing more problems with this and being my first time I'm not sure how to proceed. I was able to remove most of the water marks by hand, but I definitely need some advise on removing the etchings .

[Top Gear]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Well, there are many variables, so let me back up. I get these sap/resin/water spots on black, too, and I've found they generally are like stains atop the clear cloat and/or finishing layers, looking worse than they really are. They can sometimes go away over time just from the daily touch-ups with Ultimate Wash & Wax Anywhere and Qwik Wax, washings, and rain. I often forget the sap spots soon enough as they fade away, but water spots can take more washing cycles if they are going to yield to that.

For immediate removal, such as during a correction, they may come clean from a clay kit, which should be your first step (after washing), they may come free using a cleaner-wax, Ultimate Polish or the like, or Ultimate Compound or the like. If you're already compounding a panel, these sap and water spots will disappear along with other minor defects.

Personally, while I recently moved from foam pads to microfiber pads and won't go back, in this case, I think you could start with the thick foam pads (Mirror Glaze Soft Buff "1.0" series, or the new 2.0 thin foams if you prefer). I say this because the 1.0s are not very aggressive at all, and you'd have to go well out of your way to do any damage. Feeling out the paint in question is part of the learning curve. If the paint is softer, this may be all you'll need.

It's also possible to deal with the spots by hand using a microfiber towel or foam applicator. Again, it might work well enough with the clay, wax, it might take only the polish, or it might need a bit of compounding, followed by polish and wax. The issue with hand work is the holograms which are likely from the simple hand motion over a single spot, as opposed to the random and wider motion of a DA setup.

Here's an example on my black car before I started using a DA (I have not used the DA Power System, but jumped right in to a Porter Cable DA often discussed on this site), and the result after my first DA attempt, which wasn't perfect, but a success nonetheless. I was previously so proud that I'd nearly removed an ugly scratch by hand with Ultimate Compound, but in the right light you can see my finger pressure points in the resulting holograms. They, along with much of the scratch, were then corrected with the DA using a burgundy cutting pad and UC. If I were to encounter this scratch today, though, I'd clean and clay the scratch area, maybe attempt to cut it with an MF Cutting Disc and UC or D300, sand it away with 1500/3000 grit paper, and pull out the sanding marks/haze with an MF Cutting Disc and D300. That bold solution would never have been conceivable to me when I took these shots in a clear Winter sunlight:

Which ever way you proceed, sap spots are not the worst defects you'll be dealing with, and if you clean the sap off soon enough on a daily basis, they will either never be a problem, or you'll often see the stain spots fade away during normal maintenance.

Hope all that helps

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Yes actually I already tried repeated washings, clay bar and UC by hand multiple times and nothing even touched it. I believe they are rather deep as I was admittedly neglectful and didn't address the problem right away. And Im sure the heat of the Sun didn't help matters either. This is why I asked about the DA system that attaches to a drill, I was wondering if that would make a difference as opposed to compounding by hand ? Or is it that if they are deep nothing will help ?

And thanks for the photos, I wasn't aware of the hologram effect.

[Top Gear]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Yes, that will work just fine. What I was talking about happens over time. You can't do repeated washings, but somehow the stains will yield over time, like weeks. This may not apply to all sap or water spots, but some. Anyway, yes, setup your DA system and you'll be in business.

[Top Gear]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Wanted to give you another example, as I was thinking of this thread.

There's lots of new spots on my car overnight from a pear tree that won't easily wipe off, even with UWWA. Yet, as I'm wiping them mostly away, I can tell that my DA-applied wax is gone, D301 (yet the paint is protected with so much UWWA and GCQW). I can tell because of a subtle change from a bluish dark black to a silvery glossy black. When I was using Gold Class, it was from a golden glossy black to a silvery glossy black. So, one of these days soon when it's hopefully not 110 degrees I'll use D301, a cleaner-wax, to do a quick (but sweaty) monthly re-wax, and any spots like that, as well as new swirls and other minor scuffs, will be gone. This is partly because there are plenty of polishing oils underneath from all the correction work I've done this year.

While I do recommend a Porter Cable over the drill-powered setup, once you get a DA solution going, you will find minor spots like that to be no real issue, but do test spots and allow yourself time to get used to the gear. It's scratches, rock chips, and other defects that will be more challenging

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

A friend brought over Meguiar's 105 compound yesterday. It's supposed to be very good. I gave it a try by hand but it did nothing to remove the sap etchings. I'm not sure these products will correct the problem. Maybe the etchings are just too deep or too old to remove. I don't see the point in wasting the money on a Meguiar's DA power system that probably won't work.

[The Guz]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Sounds like they are pretty deep and would require more work than using anything by hand.

[Top Gear]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Please post a picture, or several. It's hard to theorize about this further. What exactly did you do by hand? It sounds like you were too gentle, but getting aggressive by hand is a danger, IMO. Can you feel the etchings with a fingernail? If so, its possible to minimize them. If you can't feel them, it's possible to remove them with the right techniques. So, there are lots of variables.

I hear you, though. I was once thinking the same thing, not wanting to spend money, and it's hard to believe people on discussion forums. Many members here were also in the same or similar positions. None of us were born with a polishing machine in our hands

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Sounds like they are pretty deep and would require more work than using anything by hand.

Guz, thanks for your response. I was hoping others here may have had similar experience and could let me know if they were able to correct their sap etchings with the Meguiar's DA power system (drill attachment).
I did try by hand, with no luck. I'm just not clear on whether the Power System will make any difference ?

I just don't see the point of throwing more money at a problem that can't be corrected.

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Please post a picture, or several. It's hard to theorize about this further. What exactly did you do by hand? It sounds like you were too gentle, but getting aggressive by hand is a danger, IMO. Can you feel the etchings with a fingernail? If so, its possible to minimize them. If you can't feel them, it's possible to remove them with the right techniques. So, there are lots of variables.

I hear you, though. I was once thinking the same thing, not wanting to spend money, and it's hard to believe people on discussion forums. Many members here were also in the same or similar positions. None of us were born with a polishing machine in our hands

TopGear, I focused on one small sap etching by hand with the Mags 105 compound to see if it would make a difference. I did not. I was fairly aggressive, but not too aggressive.

No I can not feel the etching at all.

Yes good idea I will try to post a few photos. I would imagine though imperfections on black paint will be hard to photograph but I'll try.

Thanks again...

[The Guz]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Guz, thanks for your response. I was hoping others here may have had similar experience and could let me know if they were able to correct their sap etchings with the Meguiar's DA power system (drill attachment).
I did try by hand, with no luck. I'm just not clear on whether the Power System will make any difference ?

I just don't see the point of throwing more money at a problem that can't be corrected.

Considering the price of the DAPS, I would pick up a DA instead. You will much more success with a polisher than by hand.

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Considering the price of the DAPS, I would pick up a DA instead. You will much more success with a polisher than by hand.

Guz, which DA(s) would you suggest ??? I'm not all that familiar with the better models.

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

I hope these are clear enough. They're the best I could get, focus-wise.

I used a macro setting so they will appear much larger than they actually are.