steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

[79elcamino]

yesterday i replaced both balls joints, both outter and inner tie rod ends on my 06 sentra s 1.8l. after getting a wheel alignment from the first shop, i noticed when driving at speeds ranging from 20-highway speeds the car goes to the right when i put the steering wheel straight, so i went to a different shop and had a wheel alignment done and i have the same problem. also i had monroe quick struts installed about 6 months ago. i know they put the steering wheel straight before adjustment becuase i saw them do it, theres no way to adjust the position of the steering wheel itself right

[TOGWT]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

Wheel / Steering Geometry

Tracking - is where the front wheels are checked against each other using a laser and then moved until the beam is a mirror of itself on the opposite wheel. However, you need to ask yourself this question, what are the wheels actually being aligned to? The answer is not each other; in fact they are not being aligned to anything using tracking. The gauges may show the wheels as being out of alignment; however, what they do not show is which one(s) will need adjusting and there is no way of knowing what the actual angles measure.

They should be aligned to the rear thrust angle; which is the centre point of the vehicles chassis and should always be as close to zero degrees as possible. There is an imaginary line joining both the front and rear wheels together and then a line joining these down the centre. Where the centre line meets the line joining the rear wheels this is the thrust angle and it shows where all four wheels sit in relation to each other.

Geometry - the direction and angle at which tyres are set are both important. When a vehicle is measured on a geometry machine each wheel can be independently aligned to the thrust angle with the help of viewing the angles on a computer screen. This is done via separate panels being positioned on each wheel, which are then linked to the computer via lasers. It does not matter if the car only has adjustable front/rear toe, camber, caster or all three. If the rear suspension is adjustable in some form, then geometry check is a must, nothing else will suffice.

[Paul S]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

Any competent shop can center the steering wheel. After caster , toe-in and camber is set correctly the tie rod ends need to be turned in equal amounts but opposite directions to bring the steering wheel back to center. Toe-in should then be re-checked.

[ChevyNick]

My Chevy Avalache has had this problem forever. The dealership as well as a couple outside shops have never been able to make it perfectly straight. Maybe its just the crown of the road?

[TLMitchell]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

My Chevy Avalache has had this problem forever. The dealership as well as a couple outside shops have never been able to make it perfectly straight. Maybe its just the crown of the road?

Man, that's a pet peeve of mine! Crown of the road my butt! That's what the shops always want to tell me. I straddle the centerline on a 4 lane as well as use both lanes to check and I know the difference. Last alignment I had done I told them to expect me to test drive it before paying. If the steering wheel wasn't straight I wasn't going to pay until it was. I told them there was dead-nuts straight and then there was "everything else" and I wouldn't accept a lazy tech or lack of attention to detail. For the first time I can recall it was perfect. Guess you've just got to let your expectations and what you'll accept be known.

TL

[79elcamino]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

thanks, ill make sure they get it right

[roushstage2]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

Road crown should be compensated for when doing an alignment. Sounds like the "technicians" are just being lazy.

[TLMitchell]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

Road crown should be compensated for when doing an alignment.

OK, so if they compensate for the crown when you're on a two lane or the right lane of a multilane highway the road slopes one way. In the left lane it slopes the other way. So what's gained if they adjust for crown? Plus crowns are inconsistent, how much adjustment is enough? Then on the rare occasion you find a flat piece of road your wheel is off...

IMO and experience, all my alignments were supposed to result in a dead-straight steering wheel on a flat surface, that's what I specify.

TL

[roushstage2]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

OK, so if they compensate for the crown when you're on a two lane or the right lane of a multilane highway the road slopes one way.

The slope angle changes depending which number lane you are in? I'm fairly certain the angle would stay the same, otherwise you'd have water puddling up when the road crown (angle) changed from lane to lane, no? That is of course, if the multi-lane highway has a crown to it. The two lane road part leads to the next:

In the left lane it slopes the other way. So what's gained if they adjust for crown? Plus crowns are inconsistent, how much adjustment is enough? Then on the rare occasion you find a flat piece of road your wheel is off...

Yeah, but you are also driving the other way. You don't drive on the left side of the road in the USA, as far as I know. We stay on the right side.
As for how much adjustment, alignments are done in fractions of a degree; usually with a 2 degree variance at the very most. 0-2 degrees is not very much. You also need some compensation in the alignment for when you are turning your car around a corner. Again, this is done as a fraction of a degree.

Either way, this compensation for the road crown involves setting the caster of the right wheel slightly ahead of the left, so the car wanders very gently toward the middle of the road and not the shoulder.

IMO and experience, all my alignments were supposed to result in a dead-straight steering wheel on a flat surface, that's what I specify.

A straight steering wheel has nothing to do with alignment specs. It has to do with the person aligning the car taking the extra few minutes to do it the right way; not the quick way.

[roushstage2]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

Dupe

[TLMitchell]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

The slope angle changes depending which number lane you are in? I'm fairly certain the angle would stay the same, otherwise you'd have water puddling up when the road crown (angle) changed from lane to lane, no? That is of course, if the multi-lane highway has a crown to it.

Yeah, but you are also driving the other way. You don't drive on the left side of the road in the USA, as far as I know. We stay on the right side.

On a two lane the high point of the road is predominently in the center for drainage to the sides. On divided 4 lanes, at least the ones I drive on, they're the same. If your in the left lane/passing lane/#1 lane you're slope is to the left. After an alignment I check the steering wheel on various roads. Sometimes I find a truly flat spot, more often than not there's a perceptible crown so I head to a nearby 4 lane. In the right lane I'd expect to have to hold slight left pressure, in the left lane I'd expect to hold slight right. However, when traffic allows and I can straddle the centerline making the crown a moot point I expect the wheel to be straight and tracking to be straight.

.....this compensation for the road crown involves setting the caster of the right wheel slightly ahead of the left, so the car wanders very gently toward the middle of the road and not the shoulder.

I admit to being less than knowledgeable on the mechanics of alignment. What you cite is all well and good if you're in an area of predominently two lane roads. How about SoCal where you frequently have freeways with 4 or more lanes in each direction? Sometimes all the lanes are canted slightly to the right, other places the drainage is in the median with all lanes canted slightly towards the center. Makes me wonder how adjustments can be made to favor a particular set of conditions when there's such a disparity in highway engineering.

A straight steering wheel has nothing to do with alignment specs. It has to do with the person aligning the car taking the extra few minutes to do it the right way; not the quick way.

We're in complete agreement here. The techs that keep me happiest (or at least the least grouchy) immobilize the steering wheel prior to starting their procedure. The good ones recheck the steering wheel for straightness before they tighten everything down after required adjustments are made and again before they back off the machine. Many techs these days seem to subscribe to the "good enough" performance standard.

TL

[roushstage2]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

IMO, if you know what you are talking about when it comes to alignments and you know you predominantly drive on multi-lane highways where you are experiencing both a left and right angled slope, ask them to make the adjustments even? No adjustment farther than another. A lot of people who really know about such things usually go in and ask for custom alignment specs anyways. I don't run factory specs on my Mustang.

[722ish]

I'm not sure if all they did was align the front wheels or all four, but many times the rear wheel alignment can play a large role in off centered steering. I've owned a few cars that have had the same issue, and the rear toe settings were actually the issue, as the front end was aligned properly. I would look at the final numbers the car had, as it may be out enough that it could start to wear the tires poorly as well.

[79elcamino]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

When I went back the guy said that the on tires angle in the rear(solid rear axle) is off very very little, could that be causing the car to go to the right when the front alignment is done correctly? If so besides changing the rear axle is there any other way to fix it?

[Paul S]

Re: steering wheel not straight after 2 alightments from 2 different shops

Has this car ever been hit and are any rear bushings wore out ? If everthing is tight , not bent or wore out then the rear should not be causing the problem. Has he shown you the readings as the car sets on the rack ?