Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

[ksrep28]

I just used the UC for the fist time this weekend on my 05 Ford Fivehundred. I got this since everyone seemed to say it was close to the M105. I had some pretty good swirl marks and scratches that I wanted to take out. I used the original softbuff yellow pad and still wanted more cut. I stepped up to the Maroon cutting pad but when I finished and wiped it off, it left alot of marring. So I followed it with the yellow pollishing pad and the marring was still there. Weird. I tried to top it with swirlX but it didn't seem to help. Long story short, I finally finished the car with the yellow pad and it took about 80-95% of the swirls and scratches out. I did love the results! I would like to use the cutting pad but I got a little to worried that the marring wouldn't come out so I didn't move on with that pad. What pad combo or follow up to UC do you guys use? Does anyone use the cutting pad with UC? Thanks for any help.

[ziggo99]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

99% of the time, I'm reaching for the LC Orange and UC. It's always left a good shine behind and not much marring, not that I could see.

[Bill Davidson]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

I would venture to guess that it was the cutting pad alone that micro marred your paint. Not the UC in combination with it. I personally have had great success with M105 and a cutting pad on a black Ford F150.

Personally I would have tried M105 with a polishing pad before using a cutting pad, but in your case you didn't have it in you arsenal. You did the right thing by doing a test section and then stopping when the results were not favorable.

My guess is M105 and a polishing pad would have been the perfect combination, but you got the job done. M105 is more abrasive, but any DA job (I assume you used a Dual Action Polisher) you can do with M105 you can do with UC it just might require a couple additional passes.

[ksrep28]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

I would venture to guess that it was the cutting pad alone that micro marred your paint. Not the UC in combination with it. I personally have had great success with M105 and a cutting pad on a black Ford F150.

Personally I would have tried M105 with a polishing pad before using a cutting pad, but in your case you didn't have it in you arsenal. You did the right thing by doing a test section and then stopping when the results were not favorable.

My guess is M105 and a polishing pad would have been the perfect combination, but you got the job done. M105 is more abrasive, but any DA job (I assume you used a Dual Action Polisher) you can do with M105 you can do with UC it just might require a couple additional passes.

So you think the main difference between UC and M105 is the faster cut? I really wanted the M105 but thought the UC would do the same job. I'm still on the fence if I should get some M105. What do you think?

[Bill Davidson]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

So you think the main difference between UC and M105 is the faster cut? I really wanted the M105 but thought the UC would do the same job. I'm still on the fence if I should get some M105. What do you think?

If you can afford M105 then get it, but I really don't think it's necessary if you already have UC. M105 was made specifically for use with a rotary. Due to the fact that a lot of people were using it with a DA Meguiar's reformulated it to work better with a DA polisher. Ultimate Compound is specifically formulated for use with a DA or hand use. While it is not as aggressive as M105 it is nearly as effective. It doesn't dust up, you can work it longer, thus ending up with nearly the same results.

Just because there are more aggressive options available, doesn't mean that they are the best option. If you subscribe to the philosophy of using the least aggressive method then UC is the way to go... you got the job done.

Before looking at M105, I'd look at your technique and the use of fresh clean pads. How many yellow pads did you use to do the job? A fresh pad does wonders for surface correction. I like to use a new pad on ever second panel. Meaning I will only correct two panels with a pad and then I start with a fresh pad. In the meantime I clean the pad on the fly after each section pass. I nearly spend 1/4 as much time cleaning the pad as using the pad.

[fordf150]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

I would venture to guess that it was the cutting pad alone that micro marred your paint. Not the UC in combination with it. I personally have had great success with M105 and a cutting pad on a black Ford F150.

Bill, with your experience how would you rate the hardness of the Ford's clearcoat on vehicles within the last 10 years? (Soft, medium, hard)

To the original poster, I used an Orange LC pad with UC on a 2008 Mercury Sable last week to remove some Light to medium scratches and swirls on the hood and I would say I removed about 90-95% of it. I actually started out with SwirlX, but not enough cut. Finally, I finished it down with a Black LC and M205 and it came out rather nice.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

Bill, with your experience how would you rate the hardness of the Ford's clearcoat on vehicles within the last 5-10 years? (Soft, medium, hard)

To the original poster, I used an Orange LC pad with UC on a 2008 Mercury Sable last week to remove some Light to medium scratches and swirls on the hood and I would say I removed about 90-95% of it. I actually started out with SwirlX, but not enough cut. Finally, I finished it down with a Black LC and M205 and it came out rather nice.

There is a huge range, but I would say Ford generally has a fairly medium, workable paint.

But that is a dangerous generalization, as I have experienced fairly hard Ford clearcoats as well.

Also, just to clarify, the difference in cut between Ultimate Compound and M105 is actually quite major, although UC doesn't fit on the professional cut scale, it is estimated to be roughly 6 on a 10 scale.

By contrast, M105 is a 10.

Big difference.

[THE BIG BUFFER]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

Also, just to clarify, the difference in cut between Ultimate Compound and M105 is actually quite major, although UC doesn't fit on the professional cut scale, it is estimated to be roughly 6 on a 10 scale.

By contrast, M105 is a 10.

Big difference.

BUT with the amount of clean up required using M105 in comparrison to UC,I reach for the UC almost every time. Whitchever you use follow up with M205 and you will be happy.

[Bill Davidson]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

Bill, with your experience how would you rate the hardness of the Ford's clearcoat on vehicles within the last 10 years? (Soft, medium, hard)

I don't have enough personal experience to answer this question, but I can say that the 2008 Ford F150 I worked on was similar to my 2009 GMC Sierra in terms of hardness. I'd call them both medium.

Regarding Mark's clarification. I'm not contradicting it, but from my personal experience (which Mark has a great deal more of) I haven't seen that much of a difference in the difference in cutting ability between the two products. In fact I started out correcting the paint on my GMC truck with UC and then stopped for 2 weeks while I waited for some M105 to arrive. When I started working with it, I did notice a difference, but I said to myself that it wasn't enough to have even made the wait worthwhile at least on that particular vehicle.

You really need to do test spots and find the product combination that works for your particular application.

Here's a short thread comparing UC to M105 just to add some more confusion. You will notice differences in opinion. The Big Buffer is a pro detailer that uses UC daily.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43543

[THE BIG BUFFER]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

. I stepped up to the Maroon cutting pad but when I finished and wiped it off, it left alot of marring. Does anyone use the cutting pad with UC?

FYI:
Meguir's does not recommend using the purple cutting pad with a DA polisher because of the marring it may cause. At least that USE to be true. Then I just found this thread :

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44271&highlight=M105+finishing+polish

I tend to just try things and if it works I just stick to it. I don't have the luxury of having alot of Megs products to choose from so I use what I have.

[ksrep28]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

If you can afford M105 then get it, but I really don't think it's necessary if you already have UC. M105 was made specifically for use with a rotary. Due to the fact that a lot of people were using it with a DA Meguiar's reformulated it to work better with a DA polisher. Ultimate Compound is specifically formulated for use with a DA or hand use. While it is not as aggressive as M105 it is nearly as effective. It doesn't dust up, you can work it longer, thus ending up with nearly the same results.

Just because there are more aggressive options available, doesn't mean that they are the best option. If you subscribe to the philosophy of using the least aggressive method then UC is the way to go... you got the job done.

Before looking at M105, I'd look at your technique and the use of fresh clean pads. How many yellow pads did you use to do the job? A fresh pad does wonders for surface correction. I like to use a new pad on ever second panel. Meaning I will only correct two panels with a pad and then I start with a fresh pad. In the meantime I clean the pad on the fly after each section pass. I nearly spend 1/4 as much time cleaning the pad as using the pad.

Wow I never use that many pads, I don't have that many. I am going to pick up more though. I only used 2, cleaning them on the fly. I did notice how much better if felt when I switched to a new pad.

Now I have another question, some mentioned to follow up with M205....is that better than following up with swirl X? Since some say its not worth getting 105 if I have UC what about picking up some 205 over the Swirl X?

[lencoo12]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

If you can afford M105 then get it, but I really don't think it's necessary if you already have UC. M105 was made specifically for use with a rotary. Due to the fact that a lot of people were using it with a DA Meguiar's reformulated it to work better with a DA polisher. Ultimate Compound is specifically formulated for use with a DA or hand use. While it is not as aggressive as M105 it is nearly as effective. It doesn't dust up, you can work it longer, thus ending up with nearly the same results.

Just because there are more aggressive options available, doesn't mean that they are the best option. If you subscribe to the philosophy of using the least aggressive method then UC is the way to go... you got the job done.

Before looking at M105, I'd look at your technique and the use of fresh clean pads. How many yellow pads did you use to do the job? A fresh pad does wonders for surface correction. I like to use a new pad on ever second panel. Meaning I will only correct two panels with a pad and then I start with a fresh pad. In the meantime I clean the pad on the fly after each section pass. I nearly spend 1/4 as much time cleaning the pad as using the pad.

Bill, with your experience how would you rate the hardness of the Ford's clearcoat on vehicles within the last 10 years? (Soft, medium, hard)

To the original poster, I used an Orange LC pad with UC on a 2008 Mercury Sable last week to remove some Light to medium scratches and swirls on the hood and I would say I removed about 90-95% of it. I actually started out with SwirlX, but not enough cut. Finally, I finished it down with a Black LC and M205 and it came out rather nice.

[Shawn T.]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

There is a huge range, but I would say Ford generally has a fairly medium, workable paint.

But that is a dangerous generalization, as I have experienced fairly hard Ford clearcoats as well.

Also, just to clarify, the difference in cut between Ultimate Compound and M105 is actually quite major, although UC doesn't fit on the professional cut scale, it is estimated to be roughly 6 on a 10 scale.

By contrast, M105 is a 10.

Big difference.

How can that be? Swirlx is rated at slightly more aggressive than DACP which is already a 6. Scratchx 2.0 is rated above that and UC is rated aboce scratchx. I would imagine UC needs to be a 7 or 8 especially with the level of defects I have seen corrected and corrected myself with it.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

The hazing and marring you're seeing with the W7207 cutting pad is exactly why we don't recommend it for use on a D/A. It might serve a purpose in a pinch, but the majority of times you'll have to follow it with the W8207 polishing pad and same liquid, or a bit less aggressive liquid.

Paint hardness is such a difficult thing to quantify. We've seen BMWs with paint that seemed like it was diamond encrusted granite fighting off M105 on a rotary, and others that buffed out with nothing more than SwirlX on a D/A. Ford is no different, and it's not just between the various Ford factories either. Model year to model year things can change so you can almost never go by what someone else tells you about their car when working on yours. People talk about how crazy hard the clear is on C6 Corvettes yet we managed to remove a pretty nasty year old bird dropping etch from one just a few weeks ago, using nothing more than UC, a W8207 pad and a G110v2 that never went over speed 5. Factory paint which, by all accounts, should have been insanely hard. But it wasn't. Not even close.

That said, if you're new to the D/A buffer we'd suggest you stick with the UC on a yellow pad and just work on your technique a bit. Work time, pressure, speed of the tool over the paint, etc will all impact the amount of cut you'll get out of this combo. Try this: apply enough pressure on the pad to stop it from rotating, then ease up just enough to get some rotation out of it again. Make a few hash marks on the back of the pad or backing plate with a Sharpie if that helps you visualize it rotating. And make sure you keep the pad as flat as possible. With even moderate pressure if you start to get on the edge of the pad it will stop rotating, and you need that rotation. Move the buffer very slowly over the paint as well. You need the dwell time to let the pad/liquid do their work. Just stepping up to a more aggressive pad, liquid or both may cut faster overall but it won't necessarily leave the best finish. It's probably faster, overall, to use a slower approach with the less aggressive stuff than to try and blast through it with the more aggressive combo, only to have to go back over it all again to clean up the hazing. Sometimes slowing down actually makes the job go faster.

Of course, how your paint responds overall is a huge variable here. Some paints don't like the aggressive approach (pad or liquid) and will haze very badly. Trying to correct that can be problematic since you're likely going to be overly aggressive in trying to remove it, and you'll waste time trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

Give the UC another shot, but increase the pressure and slow down the arm speed, keeping the tool on speed setting 5.

[john m.]

Re: Ultimate Compound and Pad Combo

I think experimentation is how you continuously get great results. You will never be able to use the same combo on each car that is polished because all paint is different. True with some manufactures there are certain qualities that are similar but they will still be slightly different in my experience.

That said, dont be afraid to test things. By working M105 a bit differently I have gotten different results and the same can happen with UC. I would check your technique and make sure you are not working to big of an area. I find that I get better results by making my working space smaller.