DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

[Fly Bye]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser



I have used simply z best car wax in the past, and I noticed that it hides shallow scratches & swirls pretty well.

[Mary S]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Stoops
There was a discussion a while back on a UK detailing forum where someone asked, basically, "what's wrong with just hiding swirls?"

I think I have coming in the mail at the end of the week a polish that has fillers in it. I'll get back to you on that, whether the defects are really hidden or can you see them when you look at them in a light source reflection. It may be the surface is smooth and distant reflections are impressive but the borders between the clear coat and the polish can still be seen up close (which would still drive some people crazy).

I said I would get back to you. As I expected, you can still see the swirls in a light source even after applying a polish with fillers. I think the best you can hope to do to hide swirls is to make the surface smooth and maybe reflect better at a distant angle, but head on, you probably can't really hide them. If anyone knows of a product that will do this, that would be really good to know about.

[Mary S]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

When we talk about "non abrasive" products we're talking about products that won't scratch the surface. We use the same terminology on the label of SwirlX, by the way. To the general consumer the word "abrasive" almost always means the product can scratch, haze or otherwise dull the paint.

I would be extremely careful here. The term "abrasive" may be associated with scratching in the mind of a consumer, but not necessarily synonymous with it.

This is from the label of "Bon Ami Polishing Cleanser," which is a milder abrasive alternative to Comet, which is a harsher abrasive.

On the front: "Cleans without scratching."

On the back: "Bon Ami is America's original non-scratching cleanser. While some cleansers scratch dirt away, Bon Ami's unique soft abrasives polish fine hard surfaces clean.

I think to be safe, in the labeling of SwirlX as well as DC1, you would want to follow the lead of Bon Ami and refer to non-scratching as "non-scratching," and to refer to the product as a "soft abrasive" or "mild abrasive" rather than non-abrasive."

This is from the dictionary: Abrade: "to rub or wear away especially by friction"

The point is, no matter how gently it does so, use of these products may and will remove clear coat. As a consumer, this discrepancy popped out at me immediately, and I don't think I am unique in that way. Consumers are used to the idea of "milder abrasives" and know that even something like Bon Ami needs to be used with caution on a porcelain sink.

Granted, the average consumer doesn't do as much removing and adding of wax as I do since I like to test things, but to many it will matter to them that if they are removing old wax that they want it to be done noninvasively, not to remove clear coat unless it needs to be removed.

So, with regard to DC1 - it is a hybrid abrasive/chemical cleaner. But it is incredibly mild when it comes to the abrasives content so even with a D/A it can be challenged by even light swirls in very hard paint. But the chemical cleaning ability does a fine job of removing embedded dirt and other similar issues as a prep before polishing and/or waxing.

After reading the descriptions of many pre-wax paint cleaners from many other manufacturers, I got the impression many of them were oil-based or oil emulsion (obviously water can't dissolve something that is hydrophobic like a wax or sealant). And most of them said they contained mild abrasives, but one of them hinted about removing "dead" clear coat. Perhaps that removal could be chemical if petroleum products can remove "dead" clear coat without abrasives. Or maybe that was just their way of saying it had abrasives in it without saying it did. Hmmm.

There was a discussion a while back on a UK detailing forum where someone asked, basically, "what's wrong with just hiding swirls?"

I think I have coming in the mail at the end of the week a polish that has fillers in it. I'll get back to you on that, whether the defects are really hidden or can you see them when you look at them in a light source reflection. It may be the surface is smooth and distant reflections are impressive but the borders between the clear coat and the polish can still be seen up close (which would still drive some people crazy).

[nothelle]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

In that case i might try #80 with finishing pad.. might give me that cleansing properties, a lil bit of polishing oil and very minor cutting abilities at the same time

[Michael Stoops]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

The Swissvax product sure sounds like a pure polish to us - along the lines of M07 Show Car Glaze.

When we talk about "non abrasive" products we're talking about products that won't scratch the surface. We use the same terminology on the label of SwirlX, by the way. To the general consumer the word "abrasive" almost always means the product can scratch, haze or otherwise dull the paint. We get calls about this very thing daily from people concerned about "damaging my delicate clear coat". Heck, we constantly get calls from people asking if a particular wax of ours is clear coat safe or not - most people simply do not know.

It's also a common for people to call complaining about swirls in their paint asking for a product that will remove them without removing any clear coat. We do our best to educate them on what's really going on here.

So, with regard to DC1 - it is a hybrid abrasive/chemical cleaner. But it is incredibly mild when it comes to the abrasives content so even with a D/A it can be challenged by even light swirls in very hard paint. But the chemical cleaning ability does a fine job of removing embedded dirt and other similar issues as a prep before polishing and/or waxing.

As for the Swissvax product claims of "This paint preserving solution will nourish the paint with its heavy polishing oils. The product does not contain abrasives. Swirl marks, light scratches, tar, tree sap and old wax are completely removed. Cleaner Fluid stops short of the underlying paint layer without scratching it. Apply before wax treatment." Well, without knowing the formulation it's a bit hard to say. From the description it is highly likely that this product will do an excellent job of concealing swirls, just as M07 will. But the claim of removing tar, tree sap and old wax leads us to think there's a chemical cleaner in it as well, which M07 really doesn't have. So it can remove some of these issues through a chemical process and effectively hide other issues, that actually sounds pretty good.

Everyone is obsessed with fully, truly removing swirls - which means removing paint at least to some degree. This often leads to people asking how often they can use an abrasive product to remove swirls. Is every couple of months OK? That in turn always has us asking why you need to remove swirls so often? What's happening in your wash/dry process that needs to change?

There was a discussion a while back on a UK detailing forum where someone asked, basically, "what's wrong with just hiding swirls?". A good question, actually. What really is wrong with it? It's certainly not invasive to the paint. It sure doesn't take as much elbow grease to apply a pure polish as it does a paint cleaner. For a daily driver the paint will look every bit as good to 99.99943% of the population. And if you do it every couple of months (it's easy to do, remember) that great look will remain for a very long time. How is that "bad"? Just because it doesn't show off your ability to remove defects? Because it's cheating? You tell us.

[Mary S]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

DC1: safely removes road grime, surface contamination, light oxidation, swirls and light scratches

Swissvax Cleaner Fluid:

"This paint preserving solution will nourish the paint with its heavy polishing oils. The product does not contain abrasives. Swirl marks, light scratches, tar, tree sap and old wax are completely removed. Cleaner Fluid stops short of the underlying paint layer without scratching it. Apply before wax treatment."

Does anybody know, both these products claim to have no abrasives, yet both products also claim to remove swirls and scratches. This appears to be a contradiction. The only way to remove swirls and scratches is to level the paint containing them.

Especially since the Meguiar's "Cleaning" step of the 5-step paint care cycle involves removing swirls and scratches, it appears DC1 does indeed act on the paint itself.

There are times when using abrasives is not the least aggressive way to do something, especially when your only goal is to remove the wax, not remove part of your clear coat.

I am going to stick with body solvent or even mineral spirits if I have to because to dissolve a petroleum product you have to have a hydrophobic solvent to do so. Detergent doesn't even dissolve petroleum, it emulsifies it, which may work with the right kind and amount of friction but may not work on heavily built up wax layers or durable wax.

[akimel]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

Nothelle, one suggestion: Don't worry about how DC1 compares to Swissvax or any other pre-wax cleanser. It really doesn't matter, at least not more than a day or two. Polishing oils can add a little bit to the gloss, but they don't last very long. After the next wash you will not notice a difference. What makes a real difference is the actual polishing!

[nothelle]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

Well different companies might have different formulas and gimmicks... didn't mean to compare head to head with SV or other brands. I don't bother to use anything with abrasive ability because I just simply want to strip off wax, and i figure if DC1 can chemically clean the surface of previous wax or other contaminants, then the surface will be clean enough to ensure proper bonding with the LSP.

I've used DC1 and 2 previously for good result, just need to revisit them instead of buying new stuff for the same result that the Megs lineup can well provide.

[Mary S]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

I was just looking at the description:

"Meguiar's Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner is non-abrasive paint cleaner. The latest formula has been improved to deliver even stronger performance with no chemical odor. Meguiar's Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner safely removes road grime, surface contamination, light oxidation, swirls and light scratches to restore damaged and dull finishes. Prepares all paint finishes for polishing and waxing. For most effective cleaning, use with our Even-Coat Applicator and remove excess product with a Supreme Shine Microfiber or Ultra Plush Super Terry."

So is this kind of chemical solvent of petroleum-based products then?

I notice it says nonabrasive, but it also says it removes swirls and light scratches.

So is it a solvent or abrasive or both?

[Lasthope05]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

No worries Mike! Theres no hard feelings over here.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

Guys, let's ease up a little here before this starts to escalate.

Yes, DC1 on it's own is fine as a pre wax cleaner, but since the OP specifically mentioned if it would be similar to SV Cleaner Fluid that specific point was addressed, and addressed quite well.

Bottom line - is DC1 a good cleaner to use before waxing? Yes.
Is it similar to SV Cleaner Fluid? Well, if that product does indeed contain some polishing oils then, technically, no since DC1 is a dedicated cleaner only. But do you need the polishing oils prior to waxing? No. You might want them, but you don't need them.

Yes, the term "pre-wax cleaner" is indeed very broad and will include light paint cleaners and light cleaner/polishes. They all do basically the same thing, with varying degrees of cleaning or defect removing abilities with varying levels of polishing oils.

[Lasthope05]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

Swissvax Cleaner Fluid does. It chemically cleans and leaves behind polishing oils.

Therefore, DC1 + DC2 = Swissvax Cleaner Fluid in a functional sense. I don't mean they are chemically identical.

I understand both brands quite well, so your ROFL graphic has me ROFLMFAO.

Than in a sense M80 is the same as swissvax CF.

The original question is if it will functionally work the same as in prepping the paint for a coat of wax and DC1 would work perfectly fine. A pre-wax cleaner is a broad category that can include cleaners like M09, M82, KAIO, poli-seal, DG501, HD cleanse... etc.

[Slicked]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

Where do you get this? Not all pre-wax cleaners have "polishing oils" and "glossing" agents.

Swissvax Cleaner Fluid does. It chemically cleans and leaves behind polishing oils.

Therefore, DC1 + DC2 = Swissvax Cleaner Fluid in a functional sense. I don't mean they are chemically identical.

I understand both brands quite well, so your ROFL graphic has me ROFLMFAO.

[Lasthope05]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

That's an alright way to go.

DC1 + DC2 = Swissvax Cleaner Fluid.

Where do you get this? Not all pre-wax cleaners have "polishing oils" and "glossing" agents.

Just use DC1 and you will be fine as it is a chemical and mildly abrasive cleaner. Pre-wax clears are just chemical or lightly abrasive polishes meant to clean and prep the paint for any type of sealant or wax. Some might have some more stuff added to it but they all perform the same task. If you want a polish that can cleans, corrects and contains lots of polishing oils take a look at m80. Just remember thought, most sealants don not sit will with an oily product sitting underneath it.

You can also use an APC at 10:1 on paint. It will not harm it what so ever. All purpose cleaners are alkaline not acidic so you dont have to worry about that. As with any chemical you use, do not let it dry on the surface.

[Slicked]

Re: DC1 as pre-wax cleanser

That's an alright way to go.

DC1 + DC2 = Swissvax Cleaner Fluid.