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Swirl X - Understanding how it's used

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  • Swirl X - Understanding how it's used

    I'm just getting into DA machine polishing and was all set to buy some Menzerna polishes, however reading about the new Meguar's range with the Super Micro Abrasive technology has really got my interested.

    The paint I'm going to be polishing has very light swirling and apart from that it's in good condition; so have come to the conclusion that Swirl X (or possibly M205) would be the product/s I am thinking of going for.

    From reading lots of information from various guides, forums and YouTube videos with regular polishes you'd have to work them in until the abrasive particles have broken down. However with these new Meguiar's polishes I understand that it's not nessassry to work them until they're broken down because the abrasives used are different.

    Would I be right in thinking you would work Swirl X (or any of the other Super Micro Abrasive polishes) for a few minutes, wipe off and check to see if the swirls have been removed and that the polish would have the same cutting power right at the beginning of applying it as it would 1 or 2 minutes into polishing? What I'm trying to say is unlike with diminishing abrasives where the abrasive particles get smaller and smaller until they are so fine that they hardly abrade the paint (rather simply burnish it) the Super Micro Abrasives in the new polishes have a constant cut?

    In theory then, if you were to work these new polishes for too long, would that then mean you could end up removing alot of paint?

    The reason I ask is because with a typical Menzerna polish, you HAVE to keep working it otherwise you will end up with micro-marring. If someone was to work the new Meguiar's polishes for the same amount of time, there could be a danger they could end up removing far more paint than they were wanting and far more than would ever be nessassry to remove the defects from the paint.

    Just one other question on technique and DA speeds. In another thread I read that Swirl X should be spread at low speed (as usual) then worked in at speed 5 then once worked in slow the machine down to speed 3 for the last few passes. If the abrasives in the new polishes don't change in size through the polishing duration, why would you decrease the machine speed for the last few passes? I understand why you'd do that with a diminishing abrasive style polish because you'd be working the fine polishing oils and tiny dimished abrasives over the surface to burnish the paint. But if the abrasives within the new Meguiar's range don't decrease in size, surely there's no need to decrease machine speed as decreasing speed wouldn't do anything apart from lessen the polishing cut.

    Sorry for the long first post, I just want to get everything cleared up as best as possible so I know exactly how to approach these new polishes.

  • #2
    Re: Swirl X - Understanding how it's used

    Originally posted by Suasexed View Post


    From reading lots of information from various guides, forums and YouTube videos with regular polishes you'd have to work them in until the abrasive particles have broken down. However with these new Meguiar's polishes I understand that it's not necessary to work them until they're broken down because the abrasives used are different.

    Would I be right in thinking you would work Swirl X (or any of the other Super Micro Abrasive polishes) for a few minutes, wipe off and check to see if the swirls have been removed
    Yes.

    With our new SMAT products you can stop anytime during the buffing cycle, you don't have to work them until the abrasives have completely broken down because they don't breakdown like our traditional diminishing abrasive technology.


    Originally posted by Suasexed View Post
    and that the polish would have the same cutting power right at the beginning of applying it as it would 1 or 2 minutes into polishing?
    More or less...

    As you work any product there's a change taking place at the surface level as other ingredients in the formula are used up and as the paint you're removing from the car enters into the equation.

    What you want to do is to take any product you're going to use and test it out to a small section and get a feel for how well it's working to remove swirls. Buffing a small section for a few minutes and then wiping off the residue and inspecting the results will give you an idea if that time period, your pressure and size of area being buffed is giving your the results you want or if you need to tweak one of the above factors.

    Sometimes you may find your pad and product of choice is perfect for the paint you're working on or sometimes you may find you need a more aggressive product or pad or simply to buff longer or buff each section with a second application.

    Paint systems vary in polishability so testing each new car you work on is a good practice before going over the entire car.


    Originally posted by Suasexed View Post
    What I'm trying to say is unlike with diminishing abrasives where the abrasive particles get smaller and smaller until they are so fine that they hardly abrade the paint (rather simply burnish it) the Super Micro Abrasives in the new polishes have a constant cut?
    See above answer...

    Originally posted by Suasexed View Post
    In theory then, if you were to work these new polishes for too long, would that then mean you could end up removing alot of paint?
    Don't think that would ever happen, our products are not that abrasive and hopefully if we're doing our job on this forum our members are doing test spots, inspecting their results and dialing in a system approach that gets the job done while leaving the most amount of paint on the car for the future.

    Originally posted by Suasexed View Post

    The reason I ask is because with a typical Menzerna polish, you HAVE to keep working it otherwise you will end up with micro-marring. If someone was to work the new Meguiar's polishes for the same amount of time, there could be a danger they could end up removing far more paint than they were wanting and far more than would ever be necessary to remove the defects from the paint.
    See above answer...


    Originally posted by Suasexed View Post
    Just one other question on technique and DA speeds. In another thread I read that Swirl X should be spread at low speed (as usual) then worked in at speed 5 then once worked in slow the machine down to speed 3 for the last few passes. If the abrasives in the new polishes don't change in size through the polishing duration, why would you decrease the machine speed for the last few passes?
    Don't think you'll read that on this forum.

    Using good technique, you can start out on the 5.0 setting, work the area you want to buff and then turn your polisher off and inspect the results.

    Check out this thread, (It can be found in the center column of the forum homepage)

    Using a DA Polisher
    If you're moving up to machine polishing, be sure to read the below thread before starting...
    Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher
    (These are all similar tools)

    Originally posted by Suasexed View Post
    I understand why you'd do that with a diminishing abrasive style polish because you'd be working the fine polishing oils and tiny diminished abrasives over the surface to burnish the paint. But if the abrasives within the new Meguiar's range don't decrease in size, surely there's no need to decrease machine speed as decreasing speed wouldn't do anything apart from lessen the polishing cut.
    Again, we've never posted that on this forum? Check your source. Following the technique you posted certainly won't hurt anything but it's not necessary either, using a DA Polisher isn't that complicated, in fact it's easy and for the most part "Bubba-Proof" as long as you do what you're doing and that's getting some information first and doing a test spot before going over the entire car. (Probably the biggest and most common mistake for people new to detailing by hand or machine)

    Originally posted by Suasexed View Post

    Sorry for the long first post, I just want to get everything cleared up as best as possible so I know exactly how to approach these new polishes.
    No problem on the long post but just to note, you'll usually get better, more answers, and more in-depth answers if you limit the number of questions in any one post or thread. Long posts with lots of questions, especially questions that some would consider hard questions that will take some typing time will tend to scare people away from chiming in. (Just look how long my reply is to your post)

    This is true on ANY forum you post to and the reason we wrote the below articles and keep the link to it on our forum homepage.

    Friendly Tips...
    How to write a great subject for your message!
    The Number 3 - Try to limit the number of questions in a single message to three...


    The above articles are to help our members help themselves. Interacting on forums is a great way to get information but there's good ways and bad ways and it's a learning process for all of us.

    Mike Phillips
    760-515-0444
    showcargarage@gmail.com

    "Find something you like and use it often"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Swirl X - Understanding how it's used

      Thanks so much for that Mike, it's made aspects alot clearer and confirmed thoughts I had about the products.

      Regarding the spread at low speed, work at speed 5 and decrease to speed 3 I'm sure I read that in some of the early test sample reviews. I guess this was just the technique of that perticular person and not the technique that Meguiar's advises.

      You probably wouldn't believe it but the above message I posted was condesed! I always feel the need to explain something just as it's going on in my head, so sorry about that! I will try and strip any further questions right down!

      Thanks again Mike, much appreciated.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Swirl X - Understanding how it's used

        Originally posted by Suasexed View Post

        Regarding the spread at low speed, work at speed 5 and decrease to speed 3 I'm sure I read that in some of the early test sample reviews. I guess this was just the technique of that particular person and not the technique that Meguiar's advises.
        Everyone can perfect their own technique and anyone that's first starting out may feel more comfortable spreading the product out at a low speed and then bumping the speed up when they're ready to start actually working the product.

        There's nothing wrong with that technique at all and if you don't have someone with experience to show you first hand how to use a DA Polisher than moving slower versus faster is a good idea till you increase your comfort level.

        At our classes we show starting out, spreading your product of choice at the 5.0 speed setting but we include all the major and minor techniques for doing this without making any mistakes like spraying splatter all over the place which can happen on the higher speeds if you're not careful.

        So tweaking your technique is perfectly fine but when you get ready to actually start removing swirls, (removing paint), then you want to be on the higher speed settings.




        Originally posted by Suasexed View Post
        You probably wouldn't believe it but the above message I posted was condensed! I always feel the need to explain something just as it's going on in my head, so sorry about that! I will try and strip any further questions right down!
        I'm a long copy writer myself and have to force myself to write short copy...

        Most people are what's called "Scanners" and when people see huge chunks of text with no white space to break up the text it tends to make them pass over it and not even read it. So a simple technique for writing long copy is to break up huge chunks of text with plenty of breaks and to mix large paragraphs with short paragraphs.

        Like this sentence.

        It's all good... but we have GREAT group of people that hang out on this forum that are always willing to help with answers and links but making it easier on them to chime in does tend to increase replies...

        Mike Phillips
        760-515-0444
        showcargarage@gmail.com

        "Find something you like and use it often"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Swirl X - Understanding how it's used

          Right, let's see if I can put this into practise...

          I've read lots of great things about the 105/205 combo, but as I'm only going to be polishing my own car the £50 it would cost for the 2 products seems a tad excessive.

          Would Ultimate Compound/Swirl X be the suitable alternative and give me similar results using my DA?

          I also have Sonus buffing pads (polishing and finishing) should these be alright to use with the UC/SX combo, or would you advise on getting the SoftBuff 2 pads for optimum results?

          I take it Ultimate Compound on a polishing pad isn't too aggressive that a few minutes polishing on 'medium' soft/hard paint isn't going to take too much off?

          There we go, 3 questions and a bit a bit more white space!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Swirl X - Understanding how it's used

            Originally posted by Suasexed View Post

            Would Ultimate Compound/Swirl X be the suitable alternative and give me similar results using my DA?
            Yes.

            Originally posted by Suasexed View Post
            I also have Sonus buffing pads (polishing and finishing) should these be alright to use with the UC/SX combo, or would you advise on getting the SoftBuff 2 pads for optimum results?
            Perfectly fine to use the Sonus pads.

            Originally posted by Suasexed View Post
            I take it Ultimate Compound on a polishing pad isn't too aggressive that a few minutes polishing on 'medium' soft/hard paint isn't going to take too much off?
            Correct.


            Originally posted by Suasexed View Post
            There we go, 3 questions and a bit a bit more white space!
            The student has become the master...

            Mike Phillips
            760-515-0444
            showcargarage@gmail.com

            "Find something you like and use it often"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Swirl X - Understanding how it's used

              The student has become the master...
              "I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master."

              "Only a master of evil, Darth."

              Swirls hide in the black molecular depths, only waiting for the right time to emerge and destroy your sanity.
              --Al Kimel

              Comment

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