Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

[polaris]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Yes, that would be a good wax for an extra layer of protection also m26 or m16 are good choices. A pure wax has no polishing abilitys and will not remove the Nxt.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Hi mike i am your new customer at autogeek. I want to check with u whether can i know whether can apply nxt2.0 then m21. Is good as i know that nxt2.0 has polishing oil inside but M21 does not have. Hope to hear from u. Thank You!

Mike Phillips doesn't post regularly here any more since taking his position at Autogeek - you'll find him on their forum all the time though!

As for using NXT and M21 together, it's pretty redundant, actually, since the two are very closely related. Both have polishing oils in them, NXT 2.0 just has more. As we just stated in your other post on this topic, you really don't need to use both - two thin coats of either one should give you what you're looking for.

[ffboy]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I'm sure you can, since NXT 2.0 has polishing oils which add depth and the shine we all want to see with wax, i would apply the NXT first then M21 after. NXT and m21 are similar products, m21 can be applied with a rotary tool, while nxt is more like the consumer version of m21 synthetic sealant.

[Murr1525]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I am sure one of the Mike's will chime in, but I'll give you a quick answer that yes it would be fine, esp if you still have some old M21 to use up.

[apollofin]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Hi Jesstzn,

We were off yesterday, usually when we teach a Saturday class the weekend before, we're allowed a day off during the week, that's why we didn't reply further to this thread or any thread after the morning passed yesterday. (We built a fence all day... fun fun! )

We read your thread here,

Layering NXT or NXT 2.0


And we apologize you don't feel your question was answered? So let us try again...



Yes, if by the word layer you mean an uniform layer in thickness and coverage.

If by the word layer you mean that you can continually increase the thickness of the layer with more and more applications of product, then "No" because the surface of your car's paint will only hold so much product before you reach the point of diminishing returns, which means you will have reached a plateau and when you reach this plateau basically all you're doing is applying product and wiping it off, not increasing the thickness of the layer.



No. When applying a second or third coat of either NXT or M21, the ingredients will not remove the previously applied layer from the surface in and of themselves but will in fact create a uniform layer or coating on the surface until the point of diminishing returns has been reached. Of course you touched on factors that are out of our control and that's application material and application process, for example you could remove paint using baby oil and a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer because while the baby oil is a pure lubricant and not abrasive in any way, the fibers of a wool cutting pad spinning on a rotary buffer under pressure are powerful enough in and of themselves to be abrasive.

NXT and M21 are not cleaner/waxes, a cleaner/wax is a wax formulated to remove a wide range of paint defects, swirls, scratches, oxidation, stains, etchings, etc. NXT and M21 are not formulated for or intended to be used this way. If your paint has defects that you want to remove you should use a product formulated to do this, for example a compound, paint cleaner, cleaner/polish or even a true cleaner/wax.

We know there are other company's that teach that you can do this with their products and for more information on this claim you should contact the manufacture of those products.

Meguiar's doesn't make a wax that will layer like the way layering is taught on other forums, that is by adding more and more wax you will get a thicker and thicker layer on the surface.

To date we've never seen anyone prove this is possible with any product in a way that can be,

1. Measured.
2. Repeated by the average person.
3. The collective or cumulative effect of more and more layers won't cloud or diminish the clarity of the paint itself.

So if there's a product that claims it can be layered you need to check with the manufacture with any questions you have on how to do this.

We hope we've answered your questions, (we think we have?), at the end of the day what's really important is that you're happy with the product you're using and the results it's giving you. If you're ever unhappy with a Meguiar's product we offer a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee, simply return the product and your receipt back to the place of purchase or call our Customer Care Center and they will help you. 1-800-347-5700

Hi mike i am your new customer at autogeek. I want to check with u whether can i know whether can apply nxt2.0 then m21. Is good as i know that nxt2.0 has polishing oil inside but M21 does not have. Hope to hear from u. Thank You!

[wifpd4]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Even with modified caffeine levels, my comment stands. Interesting, a wax with a density modifiable by pressure or temperature within a predetermined amount of time. While not possible, interesting.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I would layer a wax for peace of mind because it does mean you can go over areas that may have been missed.

We agree with this completely. In fact, we've always recommended to apply two thin coats, just for uniform coverage and appearance. When applied properly thin it's easy to miss a spot or two, especially on a light colored paints.

[ffboy]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I would layer a wax for peace of mind because it does mean you can go over areas that may have been missed. Even cleaner waxes.... I would take my time with NXT 2.0 though to make sure it has cured sufficiently.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Mike, You didn't find determining thickness by sound resonance scientific enough?

Oh, it could be quite entertaining, and maybe even informative. Perhaps we could, through acoustic analysis, determine the natural resonant frequency of a panel coated with various waxes/sealants and how those waxes alter the NRF. That could help others determine the best wax for their car depending on the ambient acoustics of their environment. For example, a car used in mid town Manhattan will have to fight off not only winter snow and salt, but also the extreme reverberation effects of city noise bouncing off all the hard surfaces of the buildings. A vehicle used in a less noisy environment, such as rural Illinois or Kansas, might benefit from a wax with very different acoustic tendencies. Or it could be that I just haven't had enough coffee this morning.

The density of the base layer modified by the second layer....interesting.

An interesting theory, but..........

The density doesn't change - the technique used would also detect any changes in density, as stated here:

....given how polymer sealants cross link it's doubtful that a change in density would occur. There would have to be almost some sort of break down of the polymer chain linking and an insertion of additional material into those existing chains. From what little chemistry background I have, I highly doubt this would happen merely by wiping an additional amount of unlinked product on to an existing linked and cured application. I just don't see the chemistry allowing for this to happen without some additional, and fairly extreme, force - some extreme compression in a laboratory environment perhaps, but even then I kind of doubt it. See, coffee does help!

[umi000]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Mike, You didn't find determining thickness by sound resonance scientific enough? Thanks for the threads. Extremely interesting. Including this paragraphThe density of the base layer modified by the second layer....interesting.

The density doesn't change - the technique used would also detect any changes in density, as stated here:

The additional buffing doesn't "compress" the wax, I am pretty sure about that, because it would change the refractive index and I would see that in the measurements.

[davey g-force]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

^^ What a great read - thanks for the links Mike!

[wifpd4]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Mike, You didn't find determining thickness by sound resonance scientific enough?

Thanks for the threads. Extremely interesting. Including this paragraph

Something still not clear for me here is the density of the wax layer, do multiple coats perhaps change the density of the wax layer but not the thickness, this would start to go some way to explaining the changes in looks some are claiming to see - but then again, are there really differences or simply psychological effects. One thing's for sure and thats the effect is so small, its hard to differentiate between the two!

The density of the base layer modified by the second layer....interesting.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Getting a bit zen there, eh David???


The only investigation into this that I, personally, have ever seen was done a couple of years ago over at the British detailing forum. Two threads there make for an interesting read:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=127943

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=130901

The gentleman who started the threads and did the work has access to film thickness measuring equipment at work - they do this sort of thing all the time. The results are pretty interesting, especially since he uses a variety of products in a variety of ways with pretty consistent results.

[wifpd4]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Blue, you can perform this test. Properly prepare a 12x12 area and put a coat of wax down. Allow it to cure for 12 hours. Then put a couple of side by side, slightly overlapping runs of tape bisecting the area. (use "EdgeBlock" sensitive surface tape) Place another coat of wax down on one side slightly over lapping the tape. Remove the tape after a full 12 hour cure.

Now get into position to run one of your finger tips over the intersection of the single and double coat of wax. Put on a set of headphones with no music or use hearing protection ear plugs and have someone turn off the lights. Your total concentration should be on the tactile sensation at your finger tip. Rub it slowly over the 2 wax-1 wax edge. You should feel the edge. If you remove the hearing protection and the room is quiet, you can hear the difference of the two areas as they will resonate differently under your finger tip.

If not, rent a scanning electron microscope and you can then see one molecule of wax on top of another. If thicker than that, you may be measuring a smear or streak. If thinner, the second coat of wax removed the first.



(sorry, halftime of the football game)

[Blue Apollo IV]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I still think that layering is a huge myth. I would like to see a measurement of the actual wax being built up on the paint surface...that's the only way I'd ever believe that "layering" is actually possible.