Using #80 & #83

[FinalTouchDetail]

Re: Using #80 & #83

83/orange/flex on a windshield is 100 times better at sheeting rain than rainx in my opinion, not to mention the clarity you get.

Yes, polishing the window in that fashion is fantastic

However.... sheeting the rain is the opposite of what you are trying to get. The reason the rain sheets after a polish is because you have removed all forms of sealant/hydrophobic applications from the window to the point that no beading results. It's the same as polishing a cars paint without sealing after...the water will simply sheet instead of bead.

After you polish the window you should seal it with something...rain-x is the typical go-to but there are a lot of other options for sealing glass.

[audionutmike]

Re: Using #80 & #83

I agree with the 83/80 combo. I've had great success in swirl removal with 83 on a LC orange followed up by 80 on a white and on a green pad (soft) with my Flex. 83/orange/flex on a windshield is 100 times better at sheeting rain than rainx in my opinion, not to mention the clarity you get.
I also agree with the dusting with 105 on a DA. The Flex just makes a mess of it! (but man the results.....)

I know Jeff and I fell into the twins and tend to use them with a lot of cars as they are so versatile. We always try to go with the least aggressive as we should, but there also comes a point when detailing for dollars mandates a compressed time frame. 105's aggressiveness can really be toned down with softer pads so we go with what we know will be safe and quick. With the 83/80 combo we generally spend more time going up in aggressiveness with the pads to get the results we want or doing an extra pass or coming back and spot treating.

I love them both and will try to include the 80's in all the fun!

[FinalTouchDetail]

Re: Using #80 & #83

Gotcha.

Personally I find very little use (IE: No use) for any polish now other than 105/205 and Menzerna SIP.

[Murr1525]

Re: Using #80 & #83

However, you will never obtain a truly refined finish unless you properly follow it up with a finishing polish. 105 on a white pad will never finish off as nicely as 205 on a white/gray pad.

I was thinking more along the lines of why the #83, #80, ScratchX kind of range may be skipped over now for defect removal. The DAT products didn't necessarily finish as nicely if not worked completely. The #105 can be worked mildly, stopped whenever, and still look good.

#205 would certainly finish off better.

[FinalTouchDetail]

Re: Using #80 & #83

You can change the characteristics of any polish by applying different amonuts of pressure and using different pads for different results with the same polish.

However, you will never obtain a truly refined finish unless you properly follow it up with a finishing polish. 105 on a white pad will never finish off as nicely as 205 on a white/gray pad.

[Murr1525]

Re: Using #80 & #83

Is it possible that since it seems the new SMAT technology lets an aggressive product be applied more gently and still get a good result, something like #105/UC can be applied differently to cover a broad range. That sort of makes people want to just jump to it, and just vary the pad/pressure/number of passes and be done with it.

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Re: Using #80 & #83

M105 was designed specifically for removing sanding marks with a wool pad on a rotary buffer - that is an extremely aggressive combination. Yes, M105 can be used on a D/A but because of it's formulation it tends to dust quite a bit with that tool. It's overall aggressiveness is overkill for a lot of applications as well. Like we said, if M80 and M83, with cut level in the 4 - 6 range, used to be fine for the vast majority of "typical cobweb removal" why does everyone now think nothing but M105 will do? Ultimate Compound tends to be overlooked because it's a consumer product that you can pick up all over town for ten bucks. But it's derived from M105, it cuts more than M83 (and should finisher nicer than M83 in most cases) and it gives a much longer buffing cycle than M105 when used on a D/A with far less dust.

M205 on the other hand, to quote KC's.......mama mia! That stuff is just awesome, rotary or D/A applied. Everyone should have a bottle of it in their arsenal! But it is a finishing polish so don't expect it to be your primary defect removal tool.

I agree, 105 dusts everything all to hell with my PC lol....annoying to say the least...so now that you guys have filled me in im even more pleased that i got some #83...i'll keep Ultimate Compound in mind too...does that sell in bulk or just $10 a pop over the counter?

I agree also about 205 being one of my favorite products. I was able to make this old beat up looking van shine so much that the people we bought it from litereally didnt know it was the same one when we came back to drop off our other vehicle to sell it thru them...that was sweet :-D.

I would only use somethin as harsh as 105 if i was doing a 'show car' package for someone so to speak...and that would always include a follow up of 205 and probably #20...other wise I'd use D151 to just give them a good amount of correction and then seal it.

So what about the new 'D.A approved 105'? Hows the dusting on that...and would dusting be less if it was used with a Flex?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Using #80 & #83

Michael, I had the impression that now 105 and 205 were the new de facto standard since the new SMAT technology came out, at least for clear coat and machine applications. Should we not consider this to be the case, to try 205 and then use 105 if we need the strength of a compound? Should we routinely try one of the 80-series products before we try 105, and if so, which one?

M105 was designed specifically for removing sanding marks with a wool pad on a rotary buffer - that is an extremely aggressive combination. Yes, M105 can be used on a D/A but because of it's formulation it tends to dust quite a bit with that tool. It's overall aggressiveness is overkill for a lot of applications as well. Like we said, if M80 and M83, with cut level in the 4 - 6 range, used to be fine for the vast majority of "typical cobweb removal" why does everyone now think nothing but M105 will do? Ultimate Compound tends to be overlooked because it's a consumer product that you can pick up all over town for ten bucks. But it's derived from M105, it cuts more than M83 (and should finisher nicer than M83 in most cases) and it gives a much longer buffing cycle than M105 when used on a D/A with far less dust.

M205 on the other hand, to quote KC's.......mama mia! That stuff is just awesome, rotary or D/A applied. Everyone should have a bottle of it in their arsenal! But it is a finishing polish so don't expect it to be your primary defect removal tool.

[FinalTouchDetail]

Re: Using #80 & #83

#83 can be pretty aggressive with the right pad combo, so just inspect your work to see how it finishes up. Following it up with #80 will always give a superior finish though.

[Mary S]

Re: Using #80 & #83

http://www.auto-geek.net/charts/wax-cut-chart-master.htm

I found this chart which helps show where these products are, although it isn't up to date to include UC, SwirlX, ScratchX 2.0.

It does look like there is a need for something in the 105/205 set that falls about where 83 is. I had personally decided to use 151 too (I even have one on order), although it being an all-in-one, it may be a bit harder to see the results of the work.

So Meguiars, how about an M155 between 105 and 205?

I don't know about sealants in 80. To my knowledge, it has light abrasives and lots of oils in it.

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Re: Using #80 & #83

Before the introduction of Ultimate Compound to our Consumer line, M80 Speed Glaze is the product we used in our Saturday Classes, and we routinely removed all kinds of swirls from a wide variety of paints. If you look back through the threads of pictures from our Saturday classes (specifically those that are a few years old).

Here are a couple examples to get you going (you might have to scroll down a bit to find the pictures.)

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17896&page=4

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16875

M80 and M83 are both excellent products that can do a surprising level of correction. We often find it a bit odd that these two products used to be the de facto workhorse products for many, many enthusiasts but now everyone seems to think nothing but M105 will get the job done.

I do love the 105/205 twins....but i also like having something else in case i run into something that it might work for.

Ive got a sample of D151 as well...was told its sort of inbetween 105 and 205...but had to go for the almost full gallons of 80/83. Thanks for the info that its great on single stage and fresh paints Murr...Ive never worked on either but I'm hoping to one day...trying to get some serious business goings so at least i have something to attack a project like that if it comes along (along with my #7 ...heard its awesome on single stages).

So basically #83 could be used as my compound...and #80 as a follow up polish...and then i could seal it up and be good to go?

Is #80 needed as a follow up since #83 is a cleaner/POLISH?

Also...could i get an answer to if Speed GLAZE has fillers or not? There always seems to be some loss of comunication with certain terms (like glaze)....and I hear a lot of people say if its a glaze its a filler, just thought i'd ask to see if this is true with #80 or not.

Thanks for the responces guys, good stuff

[Hemin8r]

Re: Using #80 & #83

I still love using the 83 > 80 combo.

[Mary S]

Re: Using #80 & #83

We often find it a bit odd that these two products used to be the de facto workhorse products for many, many enthusiasts but now everyone seems to think nothing but M105 will get the job done.

Michael, I had the impression that now 105 and 205 were the new de facto standard since the new SMAT technology came out, at least for clear coat and machine applications. Should we not consider this to be the case, to try 205 and then use 105 if we need the strength of a compound? Should we routinely try one of the 80-series products before we try 105, and if so, which one?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Using #80 & #83

Before the introduction of Ultimate Compound to our Consumer line, M80 Speed Glaze is the product we used in our Saturday Classes, and we routinely removed all kinds of swirls from a wide variety of paints. If you look back through the threads of pictures from our Saturday classes (specifically those that are a few years old).

Here are a couple examples to get you going (you might have to scroll down a bit to find the pictures.)

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17896&page=4

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16875

M80 and M83 are both excellent products that can do a surprising level of correction. We often find it a bit odd that these two products used to be the de facto workhorse products for many, many enthusiasts but now everyone seems to think nothing but M105 will get the job done.

[Murr1525]

Re: Using #80 & #83

The #80 products are also good for single stage paints, esp #80.

#80 is also good for fresh paints.