1965 (Corrected) Red Mustang

[Paulvr4]

hey OctaneGuy!

Awesome Job!

[CJ from Rocklin, CA]

It is apparent that you do outstanding work, however being an outstanding neighbor/person that you are is far greater. It speaks volumes.

Thanks for sharing.

Good Luck

Claude

[OctaneGuy]

I do appreciate all the nice feedback. Just to add a little twist to this, I posted a link to this thread on

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=1379749

And this guy named Mustangpainter has been trying to convince me that it's not worth it to restore oxidized paint, that I'm doing a disservice to people in letting them see a nice shiny car that he claims will return to it's neglected oxidized state in a short time. To me it sounds more like he's a little peeved that he's losing paint business, and he's not thinking from the customers point of view but his own.

"What an improvement, looks great. I Don't mean to rain on your parade, but once (low quality) paint gets that chalky and dead you can bring it back, but it's only temporary. It will dull back down every three months or so and you will need to keep buffing it back until you go through the finish. Of course if you store it out of the sun you can add years. The real problem is cheap low quality paint. A good urethane product would last decades and never get this dull and dry."

I asked him for more details, and basically he said that unless I painted it with a good Urethane paint, and then I wetstanded and cut and buffed it, then he would be impressed.

Honestly whether he's impressed or not doesn't matter to me. So he says in another post.

"It's easy to make this junk re shine and anyone can do it with a little compound and a rag by hand. True it will take weeks to do the whole car by hand, but what you are doing does not impress me. What you are doing is removing the dead layer and adding some oils to the dry paint underneath. As soon as the oils dry out it will start to oxidize again. Take a new car, and or one that has been repainted with quality urethane paint and wetsand the orange peel out, then buff it back to a show quality shine and you have done something. "

Ok now remember this is a guy who owns a Collision Repair shop in Texas--he once discussed he opened the shop so he could learn how to restore his Mustangs- Not a bad reason, but of course, IMO,
He goes on to say:

"You seem like a good kid. Full of enthusiasm and energy. I admire that, but you have a lot to learn about the business you are trying to make money in. I personally do not think its fair to ask someone to invest that much money in a paint job that will not hold up long. My personal opinion for someone with this type of paint would be to learn how to keep it fresh looking themselves, or they will spend a ton on a losing proposition. Or pay to have it repainted with a quality paint job. MHO "

Ok, back to MOL now. I find his argument a little peculiar besides being a "35 year old kid".

As soon as the oils dry out it will start to oxidize again.
Hmmm, when we restore our paint finishes, isn't our goal to maintain the finish? Here on MOL, we learn how to clean our paint by removing above and below surface contaminants, we learn how to remove surface defects--swirls and scratches, and then seal the paint with a wax whether carnuba or synthetic polymer.

It sounds like to me what he's saying is:

If the owner neglects his car, if he doesn't wax the car, the paint will oxidize again and return to its neglected state. Exactly how does that differ from whether I've polished out the paint or not?
The owner didn't know even know the paint COULD be restored, yet by Mustangpainters assertion, he says,

"I personally do not think its fair to ask someone to invest that much money in a paint job that will not hold up long. My personal opinion for someone with this type of paint would be to learn how to keep it fresh looking themselves..."

Hmmm, his rationale is that this finish won't hold long once the "oils" dry out. Hmm, the only oils that might be in the paint would be from M80. Otherwise, the paint is sealed with M21. Now if M21 were to break down and expose the raw paint, then sure, there might be some validity to his argument, but what he's failing to consider is that the owner has a completely new sense of LOVE for his car. This car is being babied now, its not going to be neglected and this would never have happened if the paint hadn't been restored like it is today.

Note: The money reference is $400--what I would have charged for a complete restoration, but this was a gift to a new friend & neighbor, so I didn't charge anything.

The whole thread is interesting because what Mustangpainter is saying is that, people should live with oxidized paint because that's a sign of a cheap paint job and there is little you can do to improve it. And further, instead of giving new life to old paint, the owner should spend thousands of $$ for a completely new paint job that will last for years, although IMO, if neglected will look pretty bad in time as well!

[Murr1525]

Someone always has to rain on a good parade....

Does he really think his urethane paint will look much better after 41 years of neglect?

That 'junk' seems to have lasted 41 years... longer than the car was ever made to last in the first place...

[OctaneGuy]

The funny thing is that his latest post appears to have been moderated or deleted. He is sadly misinformed and I'm certain that he felt threatened by me. What a way to run a business.

I think I will post it here for kicks (I got the email notification of it--but when I went to forum, it mysteriously wasn't there)

" I am glad he is happy with his car. And I am also happy you are a hero in his eyes. If he was my neighbor I would have tought him to do this himshelf in about 15 minuets. He would then be able to keep it that way until it gets polished through. If he keeps it out of the sun it will last for years. Of course if he was my neighor, when he saw what a real quality paint job looks like on an early Mustang he would then not be so happy with it. I do not feel threatend by your post. In fact most of my business is insurance work on new crashes. I just know how easy it is to do what you did to that car. It looks real impressive, but anybody that can fog a mirror can do it. Very little skill involve d. Nothing wrong with that, it's just nothing to beat you chest on the internet about. I am finished with this thread.

Lstar "

Originally posted by Murr1525
Someone always has to rain on a good parade....

Does he really think his urethane paint will look much better after 41 years of neglect?

That 'junk' seems to have lasted 41 years... longer than the car was ever made to last in the first place...

[Murr1525]

If he does good painting work, then I am sure it would look better... but that is missing the whole point.

And I would certainly want more than 15 minutes of rotary education before starting...

[Mike Phillips]

I have witnessed so many single-stage, oxidized paint jobs restored in my life it's not even funny... Part of the success has to do with using Meguiar's products for the restoration as cheap compounds will definitely do more harm than good.

Being a painter doesn't make him an expert on the polishing process, in fact most painters I've met in my life hate wet-sanding, cutting and buffing paint, they like spraying it but leave the hard dirty work to what's known as the painters helper or the shop detailer.

Old fashioned compounds tend to abrade the paint and dry it out, Meguiar's compounds, paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes are unique in that they all include Meguiar's trade secret polishing oils and it is this component of these products that makes the results you achieved possible while other products will fail.

I would say he is correct for anyone using an inexpensive compound as these are typical grit and solvent. The grit abrades the paint removing dead, oxidized paint while exposing undamaged paint below it. These types of abrasives tend to scour the paint and then the solvents tend to dry it out, in a short amount of time the paint will oxidize again. That's the problem with crude abrasive products.

Some people just don't get the passion side of the process, they don't understand that polishing paint is an art form, not a Step 1, Step 2, Step 3 and out the door process.

There is a difference between us and them, by that I mean there is a difference between Meguiar's and all the rest of the options on the market and the difference is the reason for the fact that Meguiar's is the brand of choice among serious enthusiasts for the last 50 plus years...

[Tom Weed]

man, he has a pretty high opinion of himself. He must be pretty impressive if he can buff a car by hand in 15 minutes!

[MandarinaRacing]

Originally posted by OctaneGuy

The whole thread is interesting because what Mustangpainter is saying is that, people should live with oxidized paint because that's a sign of a cheap paint job and there is little you can do to improve it. And further, instead of giving new life to old paint, the owner should spend thousands of $$ for a completely new paint job that will last for years, although IMO, if neglected will look pretty bad in time as well!

So basically, what he is saying is that oxidized paint is my punishment for not being able to afford a high dollar, urethane, gazzilion coat job....

Alex

[Mike Phillips]

Let's all remember that one of our forum rules, and one of the characteristics that sets this forum apart from other forums is that we don't make it a practice to bash other products, companies or people.

This guy is entitled to his opinion and is likely very sincere about his belief system as is his right. We can disagree with him and hold a different opinion without going negative against him personally.

So let's keep this discussion light, focus on the topic at hand and not the personalities involved. Lynn always says you catch more flies with honey and it could be this person's opinion is based solely on his experiences in life. Because there are less and less older, original cars left to restore the paint on, (and now there is one less thanks to Richard), there will be less an less opportunities for people like us to detail like this one Richard has restored a show car shine to. Thus some people will never see what is possible using the right products and techniques, that said we don't want to jade them before they have the opportunity should the opportunity ever arise.

[Dragpakmach]

I wouldnt take it personel.Critics are everywhere.Just keep on doing what youre obviously good at.

[hoghead00]

I really enjoy looking at the Extreme Makeovers.... They are amazing. I think this is one of the best ones.... Truly amazing! Great job... They look like two different cars!

[scrub]

Awesome job despite the critic(s). Your documentation and pictures of the process are priceless let alone the final results. Thanks for taking the time to put this thread together.

This would be a great "how to" article for others to see and learn from.

Thanks again.

[OctaneGuy]

I have to admit, it's posts like yours, and others in this thread that encourage me to continue posting about my experiences.

Thank you

Richard

Originally posted by scrub
Awesome job despite the critic(s). Your documentation and pictures of the process are priceless let alone the final results. Thanks for taking the time to put this thread together.

This would be a great "how to" article for others to see and learn from.

Thanks again.

[ninee3cobra]

wow ive browsed through a lot of your posts octaneguy, and let me tell you its nothing, but impressive work. keep the posts coming i love looking at your work