Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

[miteshprema]

I have a Lexus GS460. The problem that I have is that the paint seems to acquire swirl and cobweb scratches really easily.

The car is a year old, and it has had probably about 4 full details which removed the swirls using ultimate compound, then they apply polish and carnauba wax. In between details i go to a hand car wash in Miami (Miami Auto Spa) and usually have them apply Ultimate Quick Wax or sometimes Ultimate Techwax 2.0 to keep up the shine in between details. I have used other hand car washes in the past and have had the same issues.

It ends up looking like this within a month of the detail (not my pic but one I found on the forum of a similar car).


The problem is that after just one wash the swirls and scratches are back. I am looking for tips on what to do.

I have some hypotheses on what may be causing the swirls and cobwebs:
1) Boars head brush they use to wash the car instead of microfiber mitts
2) Maybe the guys who dry the car are using dirty microfiber cloths, or pressing too hard
3) They may be incorrectly using the rotary machine to apply the tech wax 2.0.

Please share with me your thoughts on what I should do?

Also would you recommend someone else to wash and detail my car from the guys I have been going to?

[Erik Mejia]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

If you want to avoid getting more swirls and scratches on your car YOU are going to have to take control of the wash duties. I suggest you get yourself a quality wash like Meg's Gold Class, two buckets w/ Grit Guards, and either Meg's Microfiber Wash Mitt, or a nice Lambswool mitt. Some high quality drying towels like a Water Magnet are also great. The only way to limit inducing swirls is by taking immediate action which includes your hand being inside that wash mitt.

Follow the instructions on this thread:
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41790

Also, not sure if Mike P. used Grit Guards in his buckets on this video, but they are great for scraping off any debris and/ or dirt that you gather on the mitt. Simply do a section at a time and then place the mitt inside your rinse bucket, and rub the mitt against the face of the GG before wringing it out and picking up more wash solution from your other bucket.

I usually do half the hood with one side of my mitt before turning it over to the clean side, and then washing the other half of the hood. I then rinse both sides, and move on to other sections of my vehicle.

Polish your car out and then proceed with the above method and see if you can get better results. Just remember not to put to much pressure on the mitt, but rather glide it gently over your finish, and don't forget to wash often.

[Erik Mejia]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

Here's another great video which teaches you how to properly wash your car in a very in depth, and precise manner. Check it out, it too is very educational.

And remember TOO much pressure behind that mitt is a BIG NO NO.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6069207401372#

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

You are going to have to take ownership of the complete process. From washing to waxing.

Technique is very important. Maybe your spa is lacking in this regard. \Take control.

[wifpd4]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

By definition "obsidian is a naturally occurring volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock". Which from that definition, it should resist swirls.

Speaking from my limited experience, Lexus Obsidian is a beautiful black finish with a clear coat that absorbs swirls when you breathe on it.

You will need to heed the advice of the "elders" on this forum to eliminate your swirls.

After you have followed the advice of our learned elders, I have just three simple words of advice as one obsidian owner to another:

"ULTIMATE QUIK DETAILER"

oh wait, a few more:

the highest quality microfiber you can find.

[miteshprema]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

Unfortunately I live in a high rise condominium which does not have a community car wash area so washing the car myself is challenging. I could do a waterless wash but that's it.

[Shawn T.]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

Are there any washes around you that have areas where you can wash the car yourself? Some areas have these places and if you go there at the right time then the owner may not mind if you take out your two buckets, grit guards and get to work.

You could purchase a sampler size of ONR (Optimum No Rinse) and see how that works but again, if the car is really soiled then a two bucket wash is really needed.

I am assuming then that finding a power source to plug in a DA is non-existent and you will be doing most polishing by hand?

[miteshprema]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

I spoke with the head detailer at the car wash that I have been going to and also walked around and looked at their cleaning supplies and materials.

He acknowledged that there was a problem and seemed keen to fix it. He thought the boars head brushes might be the problem. I walked around and looked at the cleaning supplies. The microfiber clothes looked clean, but the pads that they use to apply the tech wax looked pretty dirty to me. The DA polishing discs also looked dirty.

I suggested to him that it may make sense to use my own materials - mitts, cloths, discs, etc. so that we know that these things are not the cause. He agreed to that.

Also he doesn't have any swirlx and has been using 3M polish to reduce the swirls. This is also not ideal.

I am going to get some stuff for next week. I am thinking of the following:
NXT Generation Wash
SwirlX
Meguiars Microfiber wash mitt - X2
Meguiars Watermagnet Microfiber drying towel X2
Meguiars Ultimate Wipe detailing cloth X6
Softbuff2.0 polishing pad
Softbuff 2.0 Finishing pad
Dual action polisher backing plate

I already have Carnauba Wax, Tech Wax 2.0, Ultimate Detailer, and Ultimate Quick Wax

Does this make sense?

[Lasthope05]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

You're just going to have to be very careful with your paint being that its black and a single stage paint you have the worst of both worlds, being black and super soft.

[Erik Mejia]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

Don't forget the Grit Guards, they really do work.

[wifpd4]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

For me at least, getting swirls in Obsidian is very easy as my daily driver and I've tried to understand the finish on my Obsidian to help improve my care techniques. Searching the web I have found numerous references to clearcoat or singe stage. Most recently this article on the Lexus Drivers site about washing your car.

Quote:
"Let’s consider the finish on your Lexus. At the base is a primer/sealer that has been formulated for flexibility; this elasticity makes it more responsive and provides greater protection. Special chip-resistant coatings are added to areas subject to high wear, such as on the hood and around the wheels.

Over the primer you may have anywhere from six to twelve layers of paint. The number of layers is a function of color; solid colors require fewer coatings, while metallic and pearlescent colors require more. Atop the paint is a protective layer of high-quality urethane clear coat, one that DiDonato proudly notes is 50 percent thicker on a Lexus than that found on typical vehicles.

All of this combines to make the finish on your Lexus among the most durable in the industry. And regular washing and waxing will help protect it even further. But there’s a right way to do it."
Unquote
(Joseph DiDonato, the Collision Training Administrator for the Technical & Body Training Department of Lexus)

Of course this maybe a generalization and not specific to obsidian.

While durable, susceptible to swirls, the Lexus black will respond well to the products and instructions given by folks here.

Good luck and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Please post some photos when you're done.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

Whether the paint is single stage or base coat/clear coat makes little difference. The issue here is two fold: a very delicate paint finish (ie, readily susceptible to marring) and a wash/dry process that does not fully take this delicate finish into account.

It sounds as though you've found a decent car wash if the owner is willing to talk to you about this and enter into such a dialog with you. But can you trust his guys to always use a different technique with your car than with others?

Maintaining such a delicate finish on your own is going to require extreme care from washing to waxing and everything in between. Extremely delicate paint can react badly to even hand application of some products. We've seen some paint like this that just does not play well with hand applied Ultimate Compound, but looks fantastic when hand applying a moderate cleaner wax like ColorX.

It may take some experimentation on your part to find the sweet spot, so to speak, when maintaining this finish, but it certainly can be done.

[czop suey]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

I'd be interested in your findings too. I just bought an obsidian black subaru. May have similar issues.

[miteshprema]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

The ultimate compound took out the swirls. We finished it off with a few coats of Tech Wax 2.0 and It looks very sharp now.

I would suggest that and then use the Meguiars Mitts and towels to wash and dry. Works really well.

[wifpd4]

Re: Problem with swirls on Obsidian Black Lexus GS460

The ultimate compound took out the swirls. We finished it off with a few coats of Tech Wax 2.0 and It looks very sharp now.

I would suggest that and then use the Meguiars Mitts and towels to wash and dry. Works really well.

Please share the details, did you work by hand or with a DA. If DA, what pad and speed of the DA?

Any after photos?

Thanks and congratulations,