Swirl Mark Dilema

[JSIN151]

I would greatly appreciate some feed back and advice on my situation. I took my truck to a detail shop to have the swirl marks buffed out. The shop I took it too came highly recommended by a body shop I had some work done a while back. The guy guaranteed that he would get all the swirl marks out. To make a long story short he has "buffed" out the swirl marks and spider webs twice but they are still there (there is not even a noticeable difference). I paid the first time because it was overcast and I was not able to inspect it. I told the guy I would be back tomorrow to speak with the owner to get my money back. He offered to do it again but I am not sure if I want them working on my truck anymore

What advice or knowledge can you guys share with me in case the owner refuses to give me my money back.

Is it possible to remove these swirls by hand. I've read about using scratch x but will I realistically be able to permanently remove these swirl marks.

Anyone know of a place in El Paso TX that would do a the job right. Sorry for the long post but I am pretty upset about this.


Thank you all in advance

[Sydster]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

Hi JSIN151! Try reading these links, it might help.

How To Remove Swirls By Hand

Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

[xtremeclean]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

The guy guaranteed that he would get all the swirl marks out. To make a long story short he has "buffed" out the swirl marks and spider webs twice but they are still there (there is not even a noticeable difference).

From the way your thread reads, it sounds like he is not using a product that is aggressive enough to remove the swirls from the paint or he is putting more in the paint as he is "buffing".

There are also serveral steps that need to be taken in order to completely remove the swirls. I know when I do paint correction on a vehicle it takes me no less than 6 hours on an average size sedan to do it right and if it is a dark color it takes longer than that. If it was my truck, I would quiz the guy about his process and then ask questions about each step and have him to explain to you each step. He should be willing to do this without hesitation.

He may also be trying to just hide them so he can make a quick dollar hoping that you will not notice them until after you wash the truck several times. I would also take some ISA and water and mix it 50/50 and use it to wipe down a panel after he has finished the truck to make sure that he is not hiding the swirls.

Also, make sure that he does not leave buffer trails/holograms in the paint when he is finished. Once he is fiinished the paint should feel like silk and look like glass if he has doing his job right.

Is it possible to remove these swirls by hand. I've read about using scratch x but will I realistically be able to permanently remove these swirl marks.

Yes, it is possible to remove them by hand, but it is a very long drawn out process that can take several weeks to accomplish. If your clear coat is in good shape and the swirls are not deep, I think that the possibility of removing the completely is very realistic. In order to keep them out though, you will need to read and apply the 5 step program that Mike talks about. Here is the link http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...&threadid=2409

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this will help you in your quest for a swirl free finish.

[JSIN151]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

I spoke with the guy today and he seems unwilling to go more aggressive and at this point I would not even want him to try. I am going to get my money back and probably buy a buffer. I found one at autozone a while back it is and 8 inch buffer from wax pro. Is it worth it I know several peeps on here use porter cables but they are a little too expensive for my budget.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

If a professional detailer cannot give you back a car with the swirls removed, he is either not able to physically remove them with his choice of products or he's removing them and then re-instilling them with his choice of products.

Is it possible to find out what he's using for

• A machine?
• Pads?
• Chemicals?

This is where a "Test Spot" can be so important, finding out what it takes to make one small area perfect and then duplicating this over the entire car. Most people, this includes most "PROS", we've met in our lives don't do test spots, they just buff out the entire car and then when they don't get the results they're hoping for they have no way to know why.

Here's an example,

What you want to do is to see if you can make a small section look good and if you can then repeat the process that made the small section look good to the entire car. It's called, "Doing a Test Spot"

Test Spot on a Mosler to remove scratches and restore clarity to the clear coat.





After our choice of products were applied and wiped off to the test spot the Mosler was pulled out into the sun to inspect. The products and procedures selected worked in the test spot and then they were duplicated over the entire car.




Once you dial-in a successful procedure to one small area, all you have to do is repeat the procedure over the entire car. If you can make one small area look good, it's not a leap of faith to figure out you can make the entire car look good.


LSP applied (NXT in this case after machine cleaning and polishing)




LSP removed




The paint can either be fixed or it can't, if it can be fixed Meguiar's can do the job, what you need is someone that actually knows what they are doing.

[cnfowler]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

The paint can either be fixed or it can't, if it can be fixed Meguiar's can do the job, what you need is someone that actually knows what they are doing.

Nice. Well said.

[JSIN151]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

Thanks for the advice. The guy explained he uses a dual action dewalt polisher, then a product called bc1, swirl mark remover, and then a wax. He told me he could do it again but being too aggressive would strip the clear. I am thinking of buying a polisher myself today. I found a few reasonably priced at lowes a hitachi and dewalt random orbital sander. My pops has one in his garage but it seems to have only two speeds and its older. Thanks again for the info

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

Get a dual action polisher like our G100, (the rest of the world calls it a PC), and pick up a bottle of our M80 Speed Glaze and a pad kit and then taking your time you can do this.

The below is a real picture and the section on the drivers side was fixed using a dual action polisher with M80 Speed Glaze followed by one coat of NXT Tech Wax.

The section on the passenger's side was fixed by hand using ScratchX


Before


After

[xtremeclean]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

I am one who thinks that a good finish is 90% prep and 10% product and of course the knowledge of the person doing the work. I know for a fact that you can use meguiars OTC products and achieve very nice results with them. Before I started using mequiars pro line, I used their DC system and had excellent results with it.

Since you cannot get the "pro" to remove the scratches from your truck, I would take the money you get back and go buy a Porter-Cable Orbital Buffer 7424 or 7336 and then learn how to do it myself. In the future when you have this problem again, you will know how to properly take care of it.

[JSIN151]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

Well the owner refused to give me my money back. I am pretty upset about that. I decided to do this on my own.

The lowes and home depot in my area to do not carry the porter cables. I guess i will have to order it online. oh well. My pops had a polisher so i decided to use it. It is older and had two speeds. No other info other than that on the polisher.

For some reason my town does not carry much Meguiars so i picked up 3m perfect it compound, Meguiars deep crystal polish, and NXT Generation Tech Wax Paste.

I only had time to do the left side of the veh. I started by claying each panel with a Mother's clay bar. Next I applied the 3m compound, then the deep crystal polish, and finally the wax. Everything except the wax was applied using a turtle wax microfiber polish pad (The only ones I could find at pep boys and autozone).

Overall the results are WAY better. The difference between the panels I polished and the one the "pro" polished are like night and day. The swirls and spider webbing are significantly reduced. The only issue is that the buffer left marks. They are only noticeable in certain areas. I dont plan to use the polisher for the right side because of the marks the buffer left. Any advice to get them out. Should I just repeat what I did but by hand?

I plan to call this guy back and show him what I did, then I will show the owner and state my case again so he can give me my money back.

The money thing does not kill me. What kills me is that I always do this type of work myself because I take pride in keeping my cars clean. This is the first time I took it to someone and got swindled. Oh well lesson learned.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

Is the buffer a rotary buffer? A lot of older rotary buffers were 2-speed buffers, high and low.

If so, then the marks are coming from the combination of the rotating action of the bonnet/pad against the paint and the compound you're using. The Deep Crystal Polish doesn't offer any cleaning ability so it can't remove the swirls.

This buffer mark problem is exactly why everyone is switching to tools like the G100/PC. Everyone except the "Professional" detailer you took your car to. For the most part, if detailers are not getting educated by forums like this, chances are good they're "Old School" and doing more damage than good.

Like the way some "Professional Detailer" fixed this Lexus...




Get either some ScratchX and apply it by hand or with an orbital buffer, or wait until you can get a G100/PC and do it right the first time, err... we mean the second time now that a "Pro" had worked on it for you.

Best of luck, hope our forum has been a help to you...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

Well the owner refused to give me my money back.

Take pictures of his work in good lighting showing his mistakes and then create a website to showcase his work and then send him the link. You can put a website up for about 25.00 a year including a domain name.

Then share the link to the website with everyone you meet using a business card with the website address on it. Help prevent this from happening to someone else.

[JSIN151]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

Thanks Mike i appreciate your advice. I will not be able to get a new buffer for a bit due to a tight budget. In the mean time should i use the scatch x by hand to remove the buffer swirls? Thanks again

i believe it is a rotary buffer

[xtremeclean]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

Well the owner refused to give me my money back.

This is not very professional in imo. I know that I always tell the customer if they are not 100% satisfied with their vehicle when I am finished, then I don't get paid for the job no matter how long it took.

[JSIN151]

Re: Swirl Mark Dilema

xtreme,

I completely agree. I am definitely going to follow Mikes advice and put up a side. Word of mouth is very powerful