The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

[yfwong]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

Thanks, I really learnt many things today.

[zbestwun2001]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

Mike, <br>
I just wanted to tell you that I really appreciate your descriptive articles....<br>
Actually I love this forum and in the last few months have learned <strong><u>A LOT!</u></strong><br>
<br>
I'm older than most of these guys.. I'm in my 50's... I have had a '93 Camry, (was mom's and she gave it to me w/ 40, 000mi in 2000). It's my second car, my project.<br>
<br>
Since then it got very weather worn but runs like a charm as it has been kept up and only has 110,000mi.<br>
<br>
It looked like krap, the clear coat was pealing and then God looked down and had a BUS hit me.<img src="images/smilies/lock.gif" alt="" title="Locked" smilieid="82" class="inlineimg" border="0"><br>
<br>
Wiped out the right side, <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/zbestwun2001/c1-1-1.jpg" alt="" border="0">.<br>
<br>
No structural damage and FULLY insured. <br>
<br>
My ins. comp. totaled it and gave me 4000$ and I bought it back.<br>
<br>
I got the best body guy, a friend of the family and he said for $2500 (w/$2500 discount) he said he could make it look great<br>
<br>
So after a week and a half I got it back.<br>
<br>
Newly painted, (Single Stage) and looking great.<br>
<br>
It's tinted now: <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/zbestwun2001/t.jpg" alt="" border="0"><br>
<br>
I have a trunk full of Maguiar's stuff and love it.<br>
<br>
Thanks for your knowledge<br>
<br>
Steve

[wOlfy]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

OK guys, I'm back from Barrett-Jackson and finally able to chime in here.

Sometimes tone and inflection get lost on forums - it's an informal venue where a bunch of passionate people share their views and thoughts. That passion sometimes flows out so quickly and easily that things can be misinterpreted or misconstrued.

Mike Phillips explained his reasoning for posting this thread in the first place, and it all makes perfect sense (or at least it should to anyone reading it). W0lfy's comments, while obviously rooted in his long standing detailing experience, make plenty of sense too and address the changes in technology that have taken place, and continue to do so. His passion certainly came through, that's for darn sure!! Further, he explained his reasons for the red text, and it makes perfect sense to me (even though I prefer the multi-quoting, but that's just a personal preference and not a rule!).

As for the back and forth here that is verging on getting out of hand, let's all step back and take a breath here. It doesn't seem that any bashing or insulting was intended on anyone's part - but when we get an impression in our heads it's easy for things to escalate if we let them.

For the record, these days we teach a slightly different approach to determining if your wax or sealant is in need of reapplication - if your quick detail spray becomes a bit more difficult to wipe off, that's a good indication that it's getting thin and is due for a fresh application.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

yeah srry bout the being in thread part .... It was showing that the syste did not send the pms i sent you

the red was not attack it was just a quicker way to multi quote then copy pasting each section of mikes posts lol Maybe i should have used a pretty green or blue instead lol

W0lfy,

It is clear you are fairly new to the MOL community (post count, for one), but keep in mind that it is exactly that - a community. The moderators, administrator, regular users and occasional visitors all have a few things in common: a love and/or desire for or to detail their vehicles, and respect for each and every person in the community.

If you think that a post or thread as a whole is misleading or "dangerous," then by all means feel free to chime in and politely share your opinion in a way that does not even begin to raise questions about whether you are intending to insult someone, or even be easily taken in such a way.

I have been a member of MOL for years, have been a moderator for I believe going on 3 years, and before that spent 4 years as a moderator on another major forum. I also moderate comments (single-handedly) for a major auto news site that pulls in 6-8 million hits a month.

I know how to spot a comment that doesn't fit amongst the rest - and some of your comments simply do not share the same tone and respect that the other posts do on this forum.

I am going to ask that you step away from the keyboard for the rest of the evening and refrain from posting. It is possible you are upset - but even if you don't think you are, please, take a break from posting on MOL.

If you want to browse around and get a better idea for how members of this community interact, please do.

Tomorrow, if you decide to rejoin this discussion, please do so with the utmost of respect for everyone on this board. There is simply no need to question the intentions of a moderator on this forum, past or present.

Mark Kleis
Moderator

[wOlfy]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

yeah srry bout the being in thread part .... It was showing that the syste did not send the pms i sent you

the red was not attack it was just a quicker way to multi quote then copy pasting each section of mikes posts lol Maybe i should have used a pretty green or blue instead lol

[Andy M.]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

once again brother I never broke none of the rules & you can not qoute me once in doing so.....

P.s.
Defending ones self against false accusations can not be considered arguing with mods, As I never attacked no one personally(in fact i feel i have been attacked), I never BASHED the forum & I have only been trying to explain why that's the case. As writing can be misintrupeted sometimes.


Peace be with you brother

Wolfy,

I think what is being seen here is by you writing everything in red, you are out to disparage the thread. Like I said I was contacted by other members. And, By you using my name and putting it in a thread it is a personal attack. You are quite welcome to disagree with whatever you see on the forum but please do it civily. I would actually love to see some of your work and picture of the Concourse Details that you do.

I do not work for Meguiars. I think a lot may think Mark and myself do but we are not Meguiars employees. We volunteer our time here because we care about the forum and it's members.

Eventually I will have to clean up the thread or Mike will do it. You are the first person who has ever argued with me out in a thread like this just FYI.

Andy

[wOlfy]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

once again brother I never broke none of the rules & you can not qoute me once in doing so.....

P.s.
Defending ones self against false accusations can not be considered arguing with mods, As I never attacked no one personally(in fact i feel i have been attacked), I never BASHED the forum & I have only been trying to explain why that's the case. As writing can be misintrupeted sometimes.


Peace be with you brother

[Andy M.]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

Ok. So now I will show you how to keep things civil. You have just broken three rules.

1. No personal attacks toward members or non-members will be tolerated.

2. No arguing with Moderators or Administrators.

3. You are welcome to disagree but you must be polite.

Exceptions:
We stand behind our Moderators, if our Moderators think you're causing problems for the online community they are empowered to take whatever action necessary to correct the problem.

You feel free to Call Michael Stoops. Not only did you send me 3 PM's stating your case (all saying the same exact thing) but now you called me out on the forum. I have emails and PM's from other members about your responses to this thread. Which is why I stepped in.

Andy M.
MOL Moderator

[wOlfy]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

ok well one i do not think its appropriate to make false accusations to a customer that has been doing business with megs for over a decade. I HAVE BEEN NOTHING BUT CIVIL & NEVER BASHED THIS FORUM!!!! And I take real offense to those accusations!

I am sending stoops a email about this & I will also be contacting Megs directly as I said I take real offense to your comments Andy, very unprovoked & uncalled for.

you can not show one instance of me bashing the forum nor being uncivil, only me sharing my opinion which in the end agreed with Mike Phillips.

as a side note if multi-quoting is inappropriate why do we get that option?lol

[Andy M.]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

Enough said. Thanks Mike for chiming in, and most importantly please everyone keep it civil.

Let's stop with the multi quoting and typing in red.

The statement that bothers me most so far is:

The thing about a forum is you have a ton of novices reading & taking to heart what is being said without question, which can be extremely bad if the are applying a technique designed for a different paint finish than what they actually have.

You are correct in that we have a lot of novices. We have weekend warriors and we have some professional detailers also. Mike Phillips, Tim Lingor, Nick Chapman, Joe from Superior Shine, Michael Stoops, forum admin, Mark Klies MOL Moderator. We put ideas out as to what the processes are that work. People can use these processes to achieve better results than they could not having this information.

Again, I want this thread to stay civil. When Mike Phillips asked me to be a moderator here it was one of the duties I "volunteered" for. I plan to keep that promise to Mike and Meguiars.

I will be keeping a close eye on this thread.

Andy M.
MOL Moderator

Please don't bash our forum!!!

[wOlfy]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

red writing is quotes from mike... so much easier then multi-quoting
Hey yo mike..... thx for the response & i did not see the date of the thread either my bad .

to try to explain my point.....
Ok, On single stage paints I agree this would be great technique! However since over 80% of the paint on today's vehicles is clear coat, I do think there should been a "one-stage paint" disclaimer.

The thing about a forum is you have a ton of novices reading & taking to heart what is being said without question, which can be extremely bad if the are applying a technique designed for a different paint finish than what they actually have.

There is absolutely no doubt I use alot of techniques that originated from Meg's, being that Meg's was really the first in the industry & all detailing professionals originally stemmed from them. And in General I agree with megs techniques......if they are for the proper paint finish of course, single stage Vs. clear coat.

Thanks for conceding my point , as I was referring to clear coat;
Over the years I've read on this forum and others where this technique doesn't work very well on clear coat finishes and that could be, I've never done any controlled studies to find out.
Most of "today's cars" have clear coat, even my 82 ranger & 86 VW rabbit. Thus most reading here will be working on clear coat.

At the time this article was written I used a terry cloth towel that Meguiar's had introduced as a part of their new accessories items and it was a very good quality terry cloth towel.
& once again I was speaking of clear coat & the very best terry cloth is very aggressive on clear & especially so on unprotected clear.


Of course microfiber is the wiping material of choice for professionals and enthusiasts, but it's only been around for about 15 to 20 years, before that, or for the last 90+ years before microfiber was introduced and to the time the we transitioned from riding horses to driving cars, terry cloth was one of the better options.
That really made me laugh & I mean no disrespect in my statement. Indeed Microfiber has only been around 15 or 20 years, & in that time car finishes have changed dramatically & so has the care techniques. Terry cloths no doubt have their purpose in both today's finishes & even more so in early model vehicles. But as I mentioned before terry cloth is fairly aggressive on clear coat & in the hands of a novice with the wrong type of paint care advice for their finish it will lead to disaster!!!

well not really disaster, but when a novice trys to decode advice which is unclear the kind of paint finish the advice is for, well you get results like this, which you can find throughout the forum(& any detailing forum) by novices using way too abrasive techniques & compounds for the correction that is needed;




And to my knowledge, using the least aggressive products, pads and processes is a philosophy and "Best Practice" that Meguiar's has been teaching sine their inception in 1901, long before either you or I were born.

I think we would probaly both agree that the least aggressive approach to the single stage(lead based in 1901) paint finishes of 1901 are far more aggressive on any "modern" vehicale 110 years later, no?


I will always remain cavil in my responses & truly never try to give wrong info & honestly i do like to discuss/debate with others that truly have knowledge of detailing.

I see now that you wrought the article for single stage paints, but maybe its good that I posted for the novices sake?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

Hi w0lfy,

This article is about a technique Meguiar's has been teaching for probably decades. I'll guess it goes back to the time of single stage paints like solvent-evaporation lacquers and enamels. One of the things I've done over the years is to take techniques like this one and turn them into descriptive how-to articles. I didn't invent the Squeak Test, merely did my best to put into words the technique. If you have a disagreement with the technique then you have a disagreement with Meguiar's and/or whoever originated this technique probably back to the 1950's or 1960's, maybe longer than that.

Since you're a Mobil Meguiar's Detailer, you probably not only use a lot of Meguiar's products, but also a lot of Meguiar's techniques developed over the last 100+ years, possibly without even knowing it.

Over the years I've read on this forum and others where this technique doesn't work very well on clear coat finishes and that could be, I've never done any controlled studies to find out. Like I said, I take ideas and do my best to turn them into how-to articles to help others. If they are someone else's idea I always give them the credit, I never steal other people's ideas or work. If they are my ideas or techniques, then I do appreciate it when others give due credit to where credit is due. While I give credit to this technique to Meguiar's, I am the guy that put the technique into words, so I'm willing to take any criticism or feedback on what I've written and I appreciate your feedback.

AND TO DO IT WITH A TERRY CLOTH ON A UNPROTECTED SURFACE????? REALLY??? a terry cloth is on of the more aggressive clothes to every touch a paint finish.

At the time this article was written I used a terry cloth towel that Meguiar's had introduced as a part of their new accessories items and it was a very good quality terry cloth towel. There are low quality terry cloth towels on the market and their are very high quality terry cloth towels on the market so I would never personally make blanket statements that all terry cloth towels are aggressive.

Of course microfiber is the wiping material of choice for professionals and enthusiasts, but it's only been around for about 15 to 20 years, before that, or for the last 90+ years before microfiber was introduced and to the time the we transitioned from riding horses to driving cars, terry cloth was one of the better options.

I've written a lot of articles, and this was never really one of the more popular ones but it's an article that addressed a topic that during the years I taught the Saturday Detailing 101 Classes was a part of the Power Point Presentation used to teach the classes.

Mike Stoops has taken my place since I stepped down from my position here at Meguiar's and he may chime in and update us if this is a technique is still being taught in the Saturday classes or not. I don't teach it in any of the current classes I teach in Florida because again, it doesn't always seem to work very well and it's not a vitally important test for most enthusiasts because most enthusiast polish and wax their car's often.

I was always trained least aggressive method first & this should be especially true if on a unprotected surface!

And to my knowledge, using the least aggressive products, pads and processes is a philosophy and "Best Practice" that Meguiar's has been teaching sine their inception in 1901, long before either you or I were born.

It's also something that most knowledgeable people that teach detailing classes have adopted into their curriculum and pass on to others even if they don't give Meguiar's the credit, which could be because they don't know Meguiar's has been teaching this philosophy for going on 110 years.

And... I have taken this idea of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, which was a single line statement and turned it into an article to go more into depth on the idea.

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

Thank you for your input, as I wrote when this forum came to life back in January of 2004,

As the Internet has evolved, discussion forums have become the primary way like-minded people come together to share their passion and their interests. Here on Meguiar's Online you'll find lots of friendly and helpful people willing to share their knowledge and experience when it comes to cleaning and polishing every inch of your car, truck or s.u.v.

And as long as the discussions on this forum are civil and respectful, without bashing other people, companies or products, then everyone is welcome and encouraged to post their thoughts and opinions on the multitude of topics on this forum, including the Squeak Test.

[Andy M.]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

uh and if no wax is present you should get out a swirl finder light & check that you did not induce a micro scratch into the clear coat when using your finger on an un waxed surface>>>>>>>even though you washed the surface, no wash can remove bonded contaminants..... if it could there would be ZERO need for claying but that's common sense i reckon. AND TO DO IT WITH A TERRY CLOTH ON A UNPROTECTED SURFACE????? REALLY??? a terry cloth is on of the more aggressive clothes to every touch a paint finish. It is the hand equivalent to a wool pad on a D/A or rotary. I was always trained least aggressive method first & this should be especially true if on a unprotected surface!

I have gained customers that are serious enthusiast after they have seen methods like this from other detailers...... of course these are the same type of people that would shoot most that came close to touching there paint & get concourse details for shows..... they are always picky.

We all do realize this thread is from 2005? Right? Just asking. I will call Mike Phillips tomorrow and see what he thinks.

Andy M.
MOL Moderator

[wOlfy]

Re: The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax

Do you even know what your talking about?

detailing for twelve years & apprenticed for two, business owner for three .... I do detail clinics for several car clubs in my area and judge an average of three to four car shows a year through out the state. Among all that I also do concourse details. So uh, yeah not only do I know what I am talking about but many others believe so to :P

So you think you could be more specific in your response? What part of my response do you disagree with?

this is not a hobby but a profession!