Trying to remove scratches

[vidrazor]

My friend dropped the top to one of his motorcycle's saddlebag on his old '86 Goldwing and got scratched and gashed. While there's nothing I felt we could do about the gashes, I figured I'd tried to see if we could get rid of the scratches.

To that end I applied Ultimate Conpound, followed by Swirl X, then Number 7 Glaze. While these products did a great job of reviving the overall finish, they didn't put a dent in removing the scratches.

Granted, some scratches are deep, past the clearcoat, but others are not. None were removed, and I applied several applications of each of the above with a fairly moderate pressure.

I have to say I'm not impressed by Ultimate Compound. It strikes me as a glorified polish. In as much as there may be some other (hopefully) better approach to removing the scratches, I think unless perhaps you use power tools with it, Ultimate Compound is definitely not my idea of a compound.

But that's merely my observation and perspective on it. More to the point, Is there anyone here that has been successful in removing scratches from a finish by hand, and if so how did you do it?

Thanks for taking a moment to read this.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

Welcome to MOL vidrazor,

If you dig around on MOL you will find that there has been an overwhelming majority of happy customers in regards to Ultimate Compound once they figure out the proper technique.

I personally have removed wet sanding marks in a single pass with about 15 seconds of rubbing via Ultimate Compound. Pretty impressive if you ask me.

Is there any chance you could get some pictures uploaded into the MOL free hosting gallery and get them posted for us to take a look at?

If there is a way to get those scratches reduced without a re-paint, someone here will be able to show/tell/teach you how.

Mark

[vidrazor]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

Thanks for your reply. Well, all I can say is your Ultimate Compound is not my Ultimate Compound. I need something like your Ultimate Compound.

I made around 4 application passes of Ultimate Compound, then around thee with Swirl X and three with Number 7. I applied a fair amount of pressure all times. All I got was a very nice overall finish, and tired arms.

I'll see if I can post a pic this week. In the meantime, any suggestions to get rid of those scratches, using something OTHER than Ultimate Compound is appreciated. Ultimate Compound has lost my confidence.

Thanks again for your reply.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

In the meantime, any suggestions to get rid of those scratches, using something OTHER than Ultimate Compound is appreciated. Ultimate Compound has lost my confidence.

Thanks again for your reply.

I have the good fortune of teaching most of the Saturday and Thursday classes here at Meguiar's and as such I regularly demonstrate in front of anywhere from 20 to 60 eyeballs, (that's 10 to 30 people), LIVE how to remove scratches by hand using Ultimate Compound and it's always worked flawlessly except when the scratches are too deep to safely remove.

There's nothing on the market more aggressive than M105 and Ultimate Compound that can remove scratches AND finish out nice. There's plenty of coarse abrasive compounds that will remove deeper scratches faster but the problem is they'll leave their own scratches behind in their place.

Then you have to remove these scratches and you're back to the problem of working on a thin layer of paint.

It sounds like you're applying the product correctly, that is multiple times with firm pressure so it could be that either these scratches are beyond the capability of what Ultimate Compound can do or the paint is incredibly hard.

Can't tell you for sure without seeing the paint first hand and working on it first hand, (no pun intended )

If you're not happy with this product then please do take advantage of the satisfaction guarantee and return it to the store from where you purchased it for a refund. If you have a problem returning it you can always call Customer Care at 1-800-347-5700 and they will help you.

Another option might be to try the M105 as it is more aggressive than Ultimate Compound and can be used by hand.

Yet another option would be to have an experienced person try sanding the scratches out and then removing their sanding marks by hand or machine but you need to find someone that is exceptionally skilled at this because if they make a judgment call error it could lead to removing too much clear and exposing the color coat.


Also, if you find a more aggressive compound that does work by hand and will finish out as nice or nicer then please update this thread so we all know about it.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

The scratch in the below article was fairly deep and UC removed it with ease...



Scratch Removed using Ultimate Compound

The below pictures were taken during the first Saturday Class for 2009 and the thread for that class can be found by clicking the link below.

Pictures from the first 2009 Saturday Open Class!




It's pretty common to pick up isolated, random scratches in your car's finish over time, especially if your car is a daily driver. Here's an example from one of our recent Saturday Detailing Classes here at Meguiar's where we used the new Ultimate Compound to remove about 98% of scratch right wear your eyes would see it everyday, right above the door handle.


Deep Scratch just above the door handle - Original resized to 800 pixels wide after cropping





These are all original shots, the photos have not been resized, the portion shown was cropped out of the original.

Before



After 3 applications of Ultimate Compound



After a few more applied by the owner


Also, those results were before any wax or any other product was applied. What you see is just the results of Ultimate Compound hand applied using a clean, soft foam applicator pad.

[vidrazor]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

Were those hand applications, or did you use a power tool? The scratches I was dealing, with one or two exceptions, were nothing like that. They were much lighter scratches. Ultimate Compound didn't put a dent in them.

A quick search shows no M105 in my area. I may have to resort to trying Turtle Wax Rubbing Compound, as that's a fairly aggressive compound that may work better by hand for this situation. The paint on the bike is the original paint from '86, so it must be fairly hardened by now. Being as Ultimate Compound strikes me more as a polish, I may follow the TW with it instead of Swirl X.

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

A quick search shows no M105 in my area. I may have to resort to trying Turtle Wax Rubbing Compound, as that's a fairly aggressive compound that may work better by hand for this situation. The paint on the bike is the original paint from '86, so it must be fairly hardened by now. Being as Ultimate Compound strikes me more as a polish, I may follow the TW with it instead of Swirl X.

M105 is a professional line product that is sold only by paint and body equipment (PBE) shops. Click this Dealer Locator link to find the nearest PBE store in your area.

Ultimate Compound is not a polish, but rather the most aggressive cleaning compound sold by Meguiars on the consumer market. SwirlX is actually much less aggressive than UC.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

Were those hand applications, or did you use a power tool?

That was done by hand. (my hand so I no from first hand experience). Like this...

The scratches I was dealing, with one or two exceptions, were nothing like that. They were much lighter scratches. Ultimate Compound didn't put a dent in them.

Wish you were closer, I love a challenge. Can't count how many times someone has brought a car to Meguiar's Garage with a scratch or other defect that they claimed they couldn't remove using ScratchX and then we would remove the defect using ScratchX.

Ultimate Compound is more aggressive than ScratchX so if we can do it with ScratchX then it can be done with UC, sometimes it's the paint, sometimes it's the depth of the defect, sometimes it technique.

I may have to resort to trying Turtle Wax Rubbing Compound, as that's a fairly aggressive compound that may work better by hand for this situation.

Pay close attention to the quality of finish left by the TW, might want to test it to a small spot before rubbing it over any major, easily visible areas.

Using a more aggressive product might remove the defects faster but you might also have to do some follow-up work to clean up any hazing or scratching left by it, so test first.

Keep us updated as to how it's working...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

A quick search shows no M105 in my area.

How to locate Meguiar's Professional and Detailer products in your hometown

We're a major supplier to the refinishing industry, unlike most of the car wax companies you read about on forums and as such there's different channels of distribution for body shop products versus consumer products, which includes all the web-based wax companies and boutique products.

You if you want a product formulated for the body shop industry you need to go to the parts stores body shop workers go to, not the average citizen work on their daily driver.

In the United States of America, there are two types of stores, there's PBE stores and Hard Parts stores and you want to locate a PBE store.

[Eddie6th]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

i to have a problem with swirls.i can't seem to be able to get a hold of swirlX here(italy).I tried with a foam applicator and step 2,polish of the deep crystal set(by hand).it did something but very very slowly and tiring.i would love to get a hold of the G110 but it's difficult to find meguiar's products here.The other thing i find with todays cars is that they have orange peel effect on the body work.i have been to a lot of showrooms and all new cars are like that today.Infact,my old '93 civic(while having lots of swirls) is actually smoother/flatter,than modern cars.I think the automotive paint industry has changed the chemical composition of paints.probably for environmental reasons.This is something i think is worse than swirls.Swirls can be taken out,but orange peel effect....????

[Bandwagon_Captain]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

Hello,

I was just wanted to jump in on the discussion of the application of Ultimate Compound. About how much force would firm pressure be? Like 20lbs?

I've applied the Ultimate Compound last week, and it seems like I may have applied TOO much pressure, and have created some more swirls than ever!

Thanks in advance!

[vidrazor]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

>>I've applied the Ultimate Compound last week, and it seems like I may have applied TOO much pressure, and have created some more swirls than ever!<<

That's interesting that you've wound up in that situation. Considering my personal experiences with Ultimate Compound so far, I would have to suggest that perhaps the paint itself is bad. Either that or perhaps you're a weight lifter. I suggest going over with it AGAIN, perhaps using a lighter force, and seeing if it doesn't help re-polish it. If not, try using Swirl-X on the surface. You may need to follow up with something like Deep Crystal polish as well.

I have yet to get Ultimate Compound to actually work as a compound. I find it FAR better useful as a polish. As a polish, it's FANTASTIC. As a compound, I've yet to be impressed.

I see people post here how they've removed all sorts of scratches and such with Ultimate Compound, but I'll be damned if I can. I feel I'm using a fairly strong amount of pressure each time I apply a pass, and I've applied several passes on a surface. Doesn't put a dent in it.

I had to resort to using Turtle Wax Rubbing Compound to achieve my desired results. THAT worked like a charm. I followed it with Ultimate Compound as, you guessed it, a polish. This is a perfect one-two punch combo. Highly recommended.

I wonder if I've somehow purchased a bad batch of this stuff. I noticed it's very thin and watery. Is this how this product is supposed to be? In contrast, Swirl-X is rather thick.

I think that perhaps Ultimate Compound is better used with power tools than applied by hand. I know there are many here that disagree, but as I've said, I've yet to see Ultimate Compound work as, well, a compound!

[akimel]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

>I wonder if I've somehow purchased a bad batch of this stuff. I noticed it's very thin and watery. Is this how this product is supposed to be? In contrast, Swirl-X is rather thick.

My understanding is that UC should have the consistency of a lotion. If yours is watery and runny, then that may be an indication of bad product. See this thread. Call customer service.

[vidrazor]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

>>My understanding is that UC should have the consistency of a lotion. If yours is watery and runny, then that may be an indication of bad product. See this thread. Call customer service.<<

Yep, that's exactly the way mine is. As a matter of fact, it's even more watery. It runs right off the terry cloths I use.

Considering there's more than one batch number like that, according to that thread, it doesn't say a lot for QC at Meguiars! I'll have to check to see what the batch number is on mine (it's over at a friend's garage right now).

I'll say one thing, though. That watery batch is one hell of a polish!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Trying to remove scratches

Swirls can be taken out, but orange peel effect....????

The way you remove orange peel is sand the paint flat. Factory baked-on paint is to hard and too thin to safely sand and then compound without risking making a mistake.

95% of all wet-sanding is done after a car has just been repainted at a body shop and the paint is thicker and still soft. You read about the topic on wet-sanding all the time on discussion forums but this forum includes that last little piece of information the other forums leave out.

Hello,

I was just wanted to jump in on the discussion of the application of Ultimate Compound. About how much force would firm pressure be? Like 20lbs?

I've applied the Ultimate Compound last week, and it seems like I may have applied TOO much pressure, and have created some more swirls than ever!

Thanks in advance!

Sounds like you probably instilled Fingermarks.

Finger Marks


Clear coat paints are delicate, you can't just rub any old way, you need to approach the paint with a gentle touch even when applying pressure.

From experience I would say pushing down with 20 pounds of pressure is too much. With good technique, maybe 5-10 pounds pressure but experience is key and you can't get experience without doing and usually making mistakes.

The good news is you can probably undo the damage using the same product but use less pressure and be sure to be using a clean, soft foam applicator pad.

Also, on this forum we teach people to do a TEST SPOT, that way if they make a mistake, only a small section of their car is messed up.


Did you rub out all the paint or just a test spot?

Doing A Test-Spot

I have yet to get Ultimate Compound to actually work as a compound. I find it FAR better useful as a polish. As a polish, it's FANTASTIC. As a compound, I've yet to be impressed.

Not sure what to tell you but I've demonstrated this product as much or more than anyone LIVE in front of groups as large as 40 people, (80 eyeballs), with phenomenal results every time and totally blown some people way, as in impressed their socks right off of them.

After 20 plus years of teaching people how to rub out paint, whenever I read comments like yours my first guess would be the problem is technique related. If that's not the problem, that is the person applying the product knows how to do it correctly, then the next guess as to what the problem could be would be paint related, that is the scratches or other defects are too deep and the paint is too hard to work the defects out by hand.

I think that perhaps Ultimate Compound is better used with power tools than applied by hand. I know there are many here that disagree, but as I've said, I've yet to see Ultimate Compound work as, well, a compound!

If you have a bad bottle of product that would explain everything because your experience is definitely not the norm. Again, we teach a lot of classes, this means we work on cars we've NEVER worked on before and UC works great on all of them so far.

Yep, that's exactly the way mine is. As a matter of fact, it's even more watery. It runs right off the terry cloths I use.

Considering there's more than one batch number like that, according to that thread, it doesn't say a lot for QC at Meguiars!

Gosh, we make over 400 products and aim for top quality in all our products but once in a while we fall short of our goal. Luckily we have a great customer care team in place to help out when we have a issue with a product.

Call Customer Care at 1-800-347-5700 and cite this thread and they will get you a new bottle and they'll make sure it's perfectly fine to use.