Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

[dzlvs8]

Hi, I live in Michigan and today was the first warm day that I had a chance to polish my car for the year. I have a 2005 black CTS and I wash it by hand except in the winter. So I wanted to get all the ugly marks out from the automatic auto wash. I have done this with success in the past by doing it by hand with a foam pad and sometimes with (believe it or not) a power drill and a 3 inch foam pad with swirl remover 2.0 prof #9.

Well, someone told me I am going to ruin my car with the drill and I needed a rotary buffer. NOT a DA polisher, but a buffer. Sooooo, I've used it a few times and every time I get more and more holograms in it. I always have the car completely clean and use a new pad. I cant figure why. I am using a pretty low speed and not putting the buffer flat on the car. After doing the buffing today, my car basically looks like this, (although this is not my pic)



Sooooo, I assume my car is pretty much ruined, but how can I attempt to fix this and what went wrong? I assume I may want to be using a DA polisher instead. But the guy that I got the buffer from said, "no, what I need is a rotary buffer). No matter how fast/slow or what method (straight lines, or circles) I use with the rotary buffer, I put holograms in the car.

So far, real quick tonight I tried to remedy the situation by using some swirl x (non cutting?) I had laying around and I used that by hand and it helped a lot but it still seems like there is a bit of a holographic look, but it is now just made up of smaller, finer, and lighter swirls

Please help me! Wax will hide the swirls but WOW now that the entire car is hologrammed up, it looks terrible. How can I best hide it, lessen, or completely remove the holographic effect so my car doesn't look so stupid. Can it be completely fixed? I think it can, but I have heard otherwise. I think the automatic car wash during the winter fixed the one spot I had on the car back last summer.

[dzlvs8]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

After reviewing alternate technics, I realize what I was doing would produce more swirls (using on edge and fast motion). I was told to do it that way by people at work though > Am I better off using a DA polsiher for repairing this? I have one. I use it for waxing. I really don't understand how a rotary buffer is good for removing swirls when it completely spins in a circle.

I guess what I really need to know is, what technique, tool, and polish should I use to fix something like the picture above shows. FYI- my paint seems to be extremely soft. Brushes at the car wash tear up my paint very bad.

[davey g-force]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

This is a classic case of why you should not use a rotary buffer without experience.

No matter, your car is not ruined. You should be able to correct those holograms using your DA. Use your M09 if that's all you have.

You should do a test spot first though, just to confirm that your process is actually giving you the desired results. (If you'd have done a test spot with your rotary buffer first, before going over the entire car, you would have avoided all this in the first place, but not to worry).

[davey g-force]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

I am using a pretty low speed and not putting the buffer flat on the car.

*CRINGE*

That's a big no-no, whether you're using a rotary or a DA. Do you have any other polishes / compounds?

You should also check the how-to vids on this site before using your DA.

[dzlvs8]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

Thanks for the info. I can get other stuff besides #9. Would you suggest something different? I don't want to use anything that is a heavier cut. Also, I knew of a lot of the dangers about using the rotary buffer. I thought i had everything figured out. I've polished my car many many many times with a power drill and by hand.

I think maybe I didn't spend enough time in each section? I guess I will do a test on some place with a few different methods. Can anyone recommend a safe method with the DA or rotary buffer? Slow speed, slow movement? Small pad? Large pad? Low pressure? I see that all methods will work. I'm just wondering what the safest is that is still going to provide results. I'm really scared to go all the way through my paint. I see people work one area for a really long time. Im not sure if that is necessary or not.

[dzlvs8]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

*CRINGE*

That's a big no-no, whether you're using a rotary or a DA. Do you have any other polishes / compounds?

You should also check the how-to vids on this site before using your DA.

I can get other polishes. What do you recommend?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

I don't normally log on here on a Sunday night but since you seem to be getting some really bad advice from someone I figured I'd jump in and see if you can be put on the right path.

A rotary buffer is an awesome tool, but the learning curve is very long and steep. Until you become very proficient with it you can do more harm than good and make a bad situation worse in a big hurry. The more delicate or soft the paint is the more challenging it can be to finish hologram free. Sometimes holograms are just part of the deal, and they're pretty common when using an aggressive pad and compound in the early stages of severe defect removal. Whether or not you can then clear up the holograms with a less aggressive process is where things can get really challenging. The most glaring thing that jumps out here is your comment about not holding the pad flat to the paint. In fact, this is exactly what you do want to do in order to create a flawless finish. Getting onto the edge of the pad while moving it quickly is a recipe for holograms. Big, bold, nasty holograms. And the softer the paint the easier the holograms show up. Even so, it is highly doubtful that you've done any real harm to the paint - it just looks bad.

Now, you don't mention what pad or what liquid you're using, but we'll assume M09 since that's what you had used previously on the drill. You should be able to clean this up with M09 but if your paint is really that soft you'll most likely get better results with M205. You'll want to run it with a foam finishing pad, not a polishing or cutting pad and definitely NOT wool. Run the buffer at a very slow speed - 1000 to 1200 rpm if the holograms are really bad, slower if they start to clean up really easily. But keep that pad as flat against the paint as possible, move it slowly side to side over a two foot square area, overlapping each pass by half the width of the pad. You shouldn't any more pressure than just the weight of the tool, so don't lean on it.

Having said all that, since you do have a DA you might want to follow with it after doing tha above in the event that you can't finish 100% hologram free. Don't be too hard on yourself if you can't finish totally hologram fee as it can be extremely tricky to so on super soft paint. You're just getting started with the rotary - you will NOT totally master the tool in a few hours. But.......the DA you have may or may not do the trick, either. If its a cheap 10" orbital type DA that you get at the auto parts store for $40 then it likely won't have sufficient power to remove all the holograms. Unless.........your paint is really that soft, in which case it may not need much power to fully fix. Give the SwirlX a shot on that tool and see how it goes. You've got nothing to lose by trying a test spot on the hood with it and you'll know pretty quickly if it's going to beneficial or not. If, on the other hand, your DA is something serious like a Porter Cable 7424 or our G110v2 then you'll kill those holograms in no time with the same foam finishing pad M205.

We'll leave you with that for now, but we are curious about your current pad choice, tool speed settings, and the year, make and model of car.

Lastly, since these are your first two posts to MOL, we'd like to welcome you to the forum. But since this is really a great discussion for first time rotary users, we're going to move this thread out of the introductions section and into the rotary buffer section.

[dzlvs8]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

Thank you for the information. It's exactly what I was looking for. Unfortunately, its raining bad today. Tomorrow is my only clear day to try it. The car that I'm working on is a 2005 Black Cadillac CTS. I also have a beat up 1995 GMC Sierra and I used a piece of dirty packing foam on a velcro pad with my orbital buffer on my truck and it turned out great!! <

On my car, I've always used a Spectrum Brand 95-900 8" flat foam polishing pad. Its the only choice at the auto parts stores near me. Its the only foam pad the company sells and is recommended for swirl removal and polishing. I've used the pad a few times but i have always washed it clean. ....I bought a new, guaranteed clean, one today, but I will try to find something different if it is recommended.

I will look for M205 but I haven't seen it at any of the stores. Today I went into the store and my choices were M09 or speed glaze (which is only recommended for use with a rotary buffer???)

I've used M09 many times in the past and it has been awesome. I even think I remember using the rotary buffer on my car the first time and getting great results. ....I'm thinking I have a dirty pad now even though I wash it after use.



Why 205? Because it doesn't break down quickly?
I'm really scared that I will get through to my clear coat soon. I think that is resulting in me not doing a very thorough, polishing job. I think I polished my car with scratch remover 2.0 and scratch x quite a few times last year (first year I started polishing). I polished it about 5-10 times. (I was just learning about how the automatic car wash and the manual car wash brush trash your car! So I had to keep repolishing it.) I really don't want to ruin my car.

I don't know if my clear coat is soft. All I know is that the manual car wash brush can be clean as a whistle (cleaned by me) and then I run that on my car and my car has scratches all over it. I used a lot of the M07 last year before waxing. I love that stuff but I switched to tech wax 2.0 after a while because wax didnt last that long if I put the M07 on first. Do the oils in M07 soften the clearcoat? I wouldn't think so, but.....my car gets light scratches in it easily.....or I am really picky about how it looks.

[dzlvs8]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

btw, I didnt mean speed glaze above, I meant M03 machine glaze. I hope someone can calm my worries about polishing through to my paint because I polished my car so many times last year and used a lot of "moisturizing" show car glaze oil/polish too. I think I will do a lot better and more thorough job on my car if I am not as worried about burning through when I do it. I have made my paint slightly warm before by polishing on purpose so I am somewhat comfortable with that but I really dont think I should be doing that many times in the cars life.


So, to sumarize, if the pad that I have will do, I will use my rotary buffer again with the technique described in the post above and test out the "mild" scratch X on a spot and then if that doesnt do well, I will try some more of my m07 if the machine glaze isn't a better choice. Sound good?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

Thank you for the information. It's exactly what I was looking for. Unfortunately, its raining bad today. Tomorrow is my only clear day to try it. The car that I'm working on is a 2005 Black Cadillac CTS. I also have a beat up 1995 GMC Sierra and I used a piece of dirty packing foam on a velcro pad with my orbital buffer on my truck and it turned out great!! <

Packing foam? Yikes!!!!

On my car, I've always used a Spectrum Brand 95-900 8" flat foam polishing pad. Its the only choice at the auto parts stores near me. Its the only foam pad the company sells and is recommended for swirl removal and polishing. I've used the pad a few times but i have always washed it clean. ....I bought a new, guaranteed clean, one today, but I will try to find something different if it is recommended.

Cleanliness is critically important here, and having more than one pad is equally important. The different density provided by different pads helps with the cutting or refining ability of the liquid used with it. You can increase the cut of something like M105 by using it with a wool pad, or a foam cutting pad, rather than with a polishing pad. Obviously tool speed impacts this as well, as does how fast or slow you're moving the pad across the paint, how much pressure you're using, etc. But the pad and liquid are huge players here, and trying to use the same pad (or two pads of the same construction) for both cutting and final polishing will rarely get you to a maximum result.

I will look for M205 but I haven't seen it at any of the stores. Today I went into the store and my choices were M09 or speed glaze (which is only recommended for use with a rotary buffer???)

I've used M09 many times in the past and it has been awesome. I even think I remember using the rotary buffer on my car the first time and getting great results. ....I'm thinking I have a dirty pad now even though I wash it after use.

M03 Machine Glaze (as you clarified in your subsequent post) can be used with either a rotary or DA, but it offers almost zero cut and can be considered a finishing glaze. That's all well and good, but it's not really the product you want. If you really want to stick with M09 rather than M205, fine, but out of nearly 300 different part numbers in our total line of products, M205 is my number one favorite product. What it can do to a modern clear coat as a finishing polish is just amazing - when used properly. And for that we highly recommend a very soft finishing pad used at the slow speeds and light pressure mentioned in our previous post. We don't know where you're shopping, specifically, but O'Reilly Auto Parts has a few stores in Flint, MI and their website lists our W8006 and W9006 pads (and the slightly larger W8000 and W9000, depending on the size of your backing plate)

Why 205? Because it doesn't break down quickly?
I'm really scared that I will get through to my clear coat soon. I think that is resulting in me not doing a very thorough, polishing job. I think I polished my car with scratch remover 2.0 and scratch x quite a few times last year (first year I started polishing). I polished it about 5-10 times. (I was just learning about how the automatic car wash and the manual car wash brush trash your car! So I had to keep repolishing it.) I really don't want to ruin my car.

The risk of getting through your clear coat is greatest with the more aggressive liquid and pad while running the buffer at higher speeds. If you go with M205 as a finishing polish with a finishing pad at slow speeds, you're doing things in a very safe and noninvasive way. You'll clean up all those holograms and remove almost nothing. In fact, we highly doubt you'd even be able to measure any difference before and after using M205. By the way, O'Reilly also lists M205 Ultra Finishing Polish on their website so it should be available close to you. O'Reilly is usually really good at order product in for you if they don't have it on the shelf at the moment. Usually they can get material in by the end of the day if you call them early enough, or just a day or two later if it's a bit harder to come by part.

I don't know if my clear coat is soft. All I know is that the manual car wash brush can be clean as a whistle (cleaned by me) and then I run that on my car and my car has scratches all over it. I used a lot of the M07 last year before waxing. I love that stuff but I switched to tech wax 2.0 after a while because wax didnt last that long if I put the M07 on first. Do the oils in M07 soften the clearcoat? I wouldn't think so, but.....my car gets light scratches in it easily.....or I am really picky about how it looks.

If you're talking about the brushes at coin op washes, those things are nasty to use on paint, clean or not! They're just too coarse and abrasive and will scratch pretty much anything (except maybe your tires). M07 is great stuff, but it's totally non abrasive so it won't actually fix anything, but it can hide stuff really well. And, no, the oils won't soften the clear coat. Modern clear coats are catalyzed films that will stand up to all kinds of nasty stuff, but can still scratch very easily, regardless whether they are considered "hard" or "soft" from a buffing viewpoint. The mechanical action of buffing to level paint is vastly different from the process that causes a scratch, which is sort of like a small, sharp cut in the paint.

Choosing the right tools (buffer, liquid, pads, etc) can make all the difference in the world here. Nothing is magic in a bottle so you still have to use it all correctly, but given the tips and pointers we've discussed here we're confident you know where many of your mistakes have been with regard to technique. Now step up with the tool choices, improve your skills, and you'll be getting the results you want.

[dzlvs8]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

UPDATE:
Well, the car looks awesome now. I used the pad I had and used the M09 because I had it around. I went with the slowest speed on the rotary and moved it slow. It brought back memories of how i was polishing with the rotary last year. SLOW movements. I was just afraid this year to start "grinding down" my clear coat again. So when I put all the holograms in the car I was just trying to lightly polish it by moving quickly. Bad bad bad. That basically left me with an incomplete polishing job. ...Maybe I had a dirty pad too. It was cleaned though. Anyway, after doing a test spot, ALLL the memories from how I did this last year came back. Last year was my first year getting into making my car look really nice. I even repolished the headlights with my power drill, some foam that I had a keyboard packed in, and some Meguiars Prof Plastic Lens Polish. That stuff can actually do alot for being a final polish! Thanks for the help.

I coincidentally do get all my products from O'Reillys because they carry quite a few products from your professional line, but the one by me only has one polishing pad and NO M205. The crazy thing was, I went to autozone today (which in the past only carried M26 from the professional line) and there was a lady setting out tons of Meguiars Professional stuff!!!!! I never seen any of that there. They even had M205. Unfortunately, my Autozone doesn't carry polishing pads! LOL.


Anyway, thanks for the help. I feel like a pro again. Car looks perfect, like it did last year. I got it done before it started raining. I cant wait until the weekend when I can wash the car and put on some M07 show car polish and then some M26. Its not as durable as the Tech wax and I know M07 is primarily for unclearcoated cars, but I am severely addicted to applying #7 show car glaze!!!!!! I'm trying to recruit some other people to use it to. The more time you get to spend with your car, the better.

[davey g-force]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

Glad it worked out for you.

I even repolished the headlights with my power drill, some foam that I had a keyboard packed in...

^^ This made me go

[dzlvs8]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!



Well, yesterday it wasnt that sunny and no holograms were showing up with my halogen light. Today, it was really sunny and in absolute direct sunlight I still see holograms. Though they are no where near as bad as they were. There are also still scratches in my car, but they are few and far between and that is normal for me when I polish and I am fine with a few very light scratches, you can see em unless u are two inches from the paint. ...and wax hides them. If I were to rate the intensity of the holograms before and after the last polishing I would say that before it was a 9 and now it is a 2. What is going on now is something, I think a normal person may not notice. ...??? but its driving me nuts and of course, not right.

Its tough to tell if these are new marks or are residuals from the old marks. I went very slow (speed and movement) and it took me 2.5 hours to polish last night. I shot about 20 pictures of the car and you could only see the holograms in one picture. Here is the picture with the mild holograms. They may be hard to see so I added arrows near them. The pics are after polishing with #9 only. No wax is on the car and the car is already a little dirty/dusty.



Here is an example of another picture where my car looks great on camera, but there ARE holograms here to. They just dont show up on camera and I shot this fender from multiple angles!



So, of course, I have a question. I am thinking of trying to remove these holos again this weekend. However, I am not sure whether to try M205 (a slightly harsher/longer cutting time treatment) or try something milder. I ask this because I am wondering if any of the holograms are very hard to avoid unless i use a something lighter, like scratch X. or #3 machine glaze. I'm also wondering if scratch x or #3 will even cut enough to get these scratches out.

I'd much prefer to go with something lighter because its not good to polish your car twice a week. I already think I polished too much last year.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

Don't worry about M205 being too harsh - at 1000 rpm or less with the right pad it's hardly taking off anything but it will do wonders for the clarity of the paint. With M09 if you don't work it long enough you won't break it down fully so the abrasives will only be working at their coarsest level, which could potentially lead to some light marring. This is commonly referred to as "short cycling" a product. Since M205 uses a non diminishing abrasive that is incredibly fine, short cycling won't lead to any sort of marring.

Now, if the pad you're using isn't as soft as it might be (ie a polishing pad versus a finishing pad) that's going to make it harder to finish down perfectly, too. In fact, in many cases it's extremely difficult to finish down 100% hologram free with a rotary unless you are extremely skilled with the tool. On really finicky paint, that skill level needs to be even higher to finish out perfectly. A lot of guys doing extremely high end work will put down the rotary and finish off with a DA to avoid those slight holograms.

But your car does look really good, for the vast majority of it. The holograms you have on the side look to be very evenly spaced, and in a way that's a good thing. It tells us you're being very methodical in your work. Compare that to the hood shot of the Lexus in your first post and you'll see what we mean. If you were truly keeping the pad as flat against the car as possible on the doors, and running at a very slow speed with slow arm movements and you still got these holograms, then a softer pad and milder liquid are called for. If, on the other hand, you were still a bit on edge with the pad and moving a bit too quickly, knock it off!!! (just kidding!). Well, no, not kidding. Keep the pad flat and move it slowly. Or change pads and liquids, and then keep the pad flat and move it slowly!

You're making major progress though, which is awesome! The rotary can be a tough tool to master, so keep on this path and you'll be fine.

[aerogt01]

Re: Hi, HEEEEEYYY I Screwed up my car!!!

Honestly, I have seen worse hologramming from dealers and "detail" centers around here. The fact that you were able to make such a drastic improvement with nothing but a rotary and M09 really speaks wonders for what the proper coaching can do.