So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

[StadiumDetail]

I had a little extra time today so I thought I would practice a little polishing, mostly wanted to try to burnish a panel. I did the following process:
Car - MB CLS500 black

3M Rubbing Compound / White 3M pad @ 1800rpm
3M Machine Polish / 3M Grey pad @ 1800
3M Ultrafina / 3M blue pad @1800, and again, and again

The trunk lid (the panel I was playing with) came out perfect in the shop, burnishing it seemed too easy. The panel looked exactly the same with the polish oils on as it did after IPA wipedown, super wet and deep deep color. But....can you guys see where this is going ....after I took it into the sun I see holograms .

It still looked awesome, the holograms were the lightest I could have hoped for, simply a very very light spider-webbing effect over the whole panel with no tracers or buffer trails, honestly no one would even notice them except for those like us. I was so close to perfect! To show how light they were, a single coat of wax hid every imperfection and the panel looked flawless.

Where did I go wrong? 1800rpm was the only speed to even touch the MB black, anything less and the scratches/swirls just laughed at me, but is it too high of a speed for a final pass with the ultrafina? Overall I'm still happy with the result I guess, just wish it could have been perfect.

BTW, I'm a self taught rotary guy. I've read a ton about it on the web but don't have any real world training other than what i've fumbled through by myself. So any direction or reccomendations are welcome because I probably don't know a 10th of what you guys do.

[Andrew C.]

Re: So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

I'm not familiar with 3M products or pads, but you could always try going over it with M205 on a DA with a polishing pad, or for an even less aggressive move, a finishing pad.

[StadiumDetail]

Re: So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

yeah i know. Here's my thinking process about that. I currently don't have steady or involved polishing work, most of it is just dealer stuff that would make you cringe, so I don't really have a need or finances for a new polisher + pads. Plus I want to be able to finish with a rotary, just to learn the skill. That way after I know what it takes to finish with a rotary, then I can try with the DA and decide which I perfer and for what reasons.

Basicly I don't want to switch to a DA just because it's easier. I need to learn this sometime.

[Still Learnin]

Re: So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

also bring down your RPM's from 1800 to 1400 then to 1200 then to 900 and do slower movements to "jewel" the finish. i believe the ultrafina has diminishing abrasives so the longer you work em the finer they get.. for your final pass 900-1000 rpms should be good. im no pro, but i know you shouldnt be finishing off a panel at 1800..

if im wrong sorry. thats just information ive acquired on the forums.. im also learning to use a rotary as well.. good luck and let us know how it comes out

[al_h]

Re: So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

Car - MB CLS500 black

3M Rubbing Compound / White 3M pad @ 1800rpm
3M Machine Polish / 3M Grey pad @ 1800
3M Ultrafina / 3M blue pad @1800, and again, and again

My guess is that the paint is too hard for Ultrafina + Blue pad to have any effect on the holograms.

Ultrafina and the blue finishing pad, generally speaking, are used mainly to jewel the paint when the car is already relatively free of holograms and defects from a visual standpoint. This setup has very little correcting power and is ideal for removing defects at the microscopic level. This is especially true on a car like the Benz CLS, which has the hardest OEM clear coat known to man. Going over the holograms with Ultrafina and the blue pad is futile, especially on the Benz paint.

Work the Machine Polish with the gray pad AGAIN with the zenith curve technique to remove the holograms. You want to go over the holograms with the Machine Polish because the hard Benz paint requires a powerful polish to remove even the slighest of holograms. When you get the car free , finish it off with Ultrafina and blue pad with the zenith curve, never reaching speeds higher than 1500rpm.

You could also alternate your products with pads to control your cutting power. For example, Machine Polish with a white pad, or Ultrafina with a gray pad. Generally, on this black Mercedes Paint, it is safer to go with a relatively more aggressive setup when dealing with holograms because you are not going to have any marring or hazing problem in your finishing step on this rock hard paint.

I haven't used the 3M products, but I use Menzerna liquids that are almost equivalent (in abrasives and in cutting power) to your setup.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

also bring down your RPM's from 1800 to 1400 then to 1200 then to 900 and do slower movements to "jewel" the finish. i believe the ultrafina has diminishing abrasives so the longer you work em the finer they get.. for your final pass 900-1000 rpms should be good. im no pro, but i know you shouldnt be finishing off a panel at 1800..

if im wrong sorry. thats just information ive acquired on the forums.. im also learning to use a rotary as well.. good luck and let us know how it comes out

Good advice.... 1800rpm for you finishing step is waaaay too fast. Slow way down as noted above. It is also critical to keep the pad good and flat and to move it slowly over the paint. At this stage you're really trying to finesse the finish, and you can't hurry that process.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

Good advice.... 1800rpm for you finishing step is waaaay too fast. Slow way down as noted above. It is also critical to keep the pad good and flat and to move it slowly over the paint. At this stage you're really trying to finesse the finish, and you can't hurry that process.

I agree! Trying to finish with 1800 rpm is just too high. I normally do my main compounding at 1750 rpm, fine cutting at 1300-1500 rpm, and finishing around 1000 rpm depending on the hardness of the paint.

Tim

[StadiumDetail]

Re: So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

yeah, i figured 1800 was too high, just that it looked good in the shop under the lights and I already un-wrapped the car to take out in the sun. Oh well, a few lessons learned there.

al_h -
That explains a lot. There were some RIDS that I just couldn't budge, and they weren't all that bad either, so if the clear is as hard as you say I understand a bit more now. I'll take eveything you said and apply it because you couldn't have described the car better.

One last question, and it seems a noob question but whatever. If I use an aggressive method on a hard clear, will it remove the same amount of clear as a moderate method on a soft clear? Basicly does "X" process remove less clear on hard paint and more on soft, or is it equal? The answer seems like simple common sense to me (less clear for hard paint) but I'm just double checking before I take new steps.

[StadiumDetail]

Re: So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

Thanks again guys for the help. There has been some stuff I know, some that i knew better than to do but did anyway, and some totally new. A little tweaking to my method and I'll get my first perfect panel, after that it is just practice and repeat and learn.

[al_h]

Re: So Close!!!! How can I get it perfect?

yeah, i figured 1800 was too high, just that it looked good in the shop under the lights and I already un-wrapped the car to take out in the sun. Oh well, a few lessons learned there.

al_h -
That explains a lot. There were some RIDS that I just couldn't budge, and they weren't all that bad either, so if the clear is as hard as you say I understand a bit more now. I'll take eveything you said and apply it because you couldn't have described the car better.

One last question, and it seems a noob question but whatever. If I use an aggressive method on a hard clear, will it remove the same amount of clear as a moderate method on a soft clear? Basicly does "X" process remove less clear on hard paint and more on soft, or is it equal? The answer seems like simple common sense to me (less clear for hard paint) but I'm just double checking before I take new steps.

Finishing with the blue pad and Ultrafina at 1100 to 1500rpm is just fine on the Benz paint. The higher speed works well breaking down the diminishing abrasives quickly to ensure a hologram free finish. The Flex 3403, a German machine designed for OEM polishing, has a minimum speed of 1100rpm. Again, the key to working with the 3M products is to use the Zenith Curve technique to optimize the burnishing process.

Using a relatively aggressive method on a hard clear coat probably removes less paint than using a relatively moderate method on soft clear coat. As in your case with the CLS clear coat, you are probably hardly removing any paint with 3M Machine Polish. However if you the same setup on the post 2006 Mazda, Toyota, or Honda clear coat, you could probably achieve some serious corrections, and even induce some serious marrings!