G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

[s word]

Yesterday I worked my roof with the G110V2 and Ultimate Compound, paying close attention to rotation speed, speed of movement and pressure. I don;t have any major scratches on the roof but a few minor ones that I am pretty picky about. But the G110V2 did not even make a dent in the appearance of these fine scratches. I worked a few areas using different techniques. Finally I resorted to Ultimate Compound followed by M205. Still no improvement. While the roof is very shiny and smooth as glass the fine scratches are still there starring at me. What should i go with next M105? by hand? by DA? or are their other recommended compounds in between.

[imz4n]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

Not only is scratch removal determined by the tool and product, you must also look at the pad used and slow down on the movement of the buffer. Work smaller areas which will allow you to work the product longer. I see you are in West Covina, Ca.? If so, a Saturday 101 class or a Thursday night open garage would be in order. On Thursday nights we could help you find the product or the process required to get them scratches.

[s word]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

I did the 101 class a few weeks back and spoke to Mike about the piano black finish and bird dropping etchings. Good news is that ultimate compound and DA removed these issues just fine. But when it comes to the scratches on the roof I am having a hard time removing. I know in the Saturday class i was moving the DA too quickly and Mike told me to slow down and more pressure. This was good because at home I kept telling myself slow down and more pressure. But with no noticeable improvement. Don;t get me wrong a good number of the light scratches and marks are completely gone. Just the stubborn ones left. I was using the yellow pad, not sure of the model number and the speed on the DA was set to 4. I even taped off and made my own test areas like in the class, worked a few different spots differently and nothing i did would remove these scratches. Maybe a thursday night open garage is in order.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

What speed setting were you using on the tool?
How large an area were you working on at a time?
What pad were you using?
How much pressure (weight of the tool or enough to seriously compress the pad and slow down the rotation)?
What's the year, make and model of the car?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

LOL!!! You responded to Bob just as I was composing my response to you!

OK, so speed 4 on the DA..... definitely move up to speed 5. I sort of hate to say it, but if I had to repeatedly tell you to slow down your arm movements and increase pressure, you may well have been doing that at home, too. It's a very common mistake and it takes some practice to do it consistently. But if you are moving a bit too quickly and not using enough pressure, and you're running the tool at speed 4, it's really going to compromise your results.

It could also be that the paint is so hard, and these last random defects just deep enough, that you need to step up to something a bit more aggressive. That means either M105 or the DAMF System. But before going there, we'd really like to make sure you've honed your skills with UC and the yellow pad. Technique is huge in this game, and we'd rather see you master that technique instead of just grabbing a more aggressive product to mask a flawed technique.

[s word]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

Thanks for the feedback. I think what you both are saying is correct. I should go back slow down and work a very small spot harder until I see the impact. I will try speed 4 then move up to speed 5. I know for sure i slowed things down at home and i was putting enough pressure to slow the rotation. But I do need to practice my technique and am willing to learn.

For the car I have the 2010 VW CC in light brown metallic. I was at the late July 101 class and stuck around to show you the piano black finish. I am not sure if it is a hard paint issue or what I am doing. I'd like to give it another try maybe this week before stepping up to M105 and DAMF (my car is no where near as messed up as Anne's was after her dad took the abrasion pad to it).

[Michael Stoops]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

OK, I remember the car now.... I even complimented you on it as I really like the CC. Skip speed 4 altogether and go right to speed 5. Move slowly and use plenty of downward pressure; almost enough to make the pad stop spinning but not quite. Work an area no larger than 2' x 2', and probably a bit smaller. VW paint can be fairly hard, but that doesn't mean all VW paint is really hard.

[s word]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

Well the CC looks even better now that I have been working the paint with your tips. So I did exactly what you described last night. I got rid of some more of the scratches but I had my eye on one particular scratch and it is not going away. They don;t seem particularly deep they are just stubborn. I am in no way able to tell if a paint is soft or hard, but seeing how stubborn this is I imagine stubborn = hard. I worked it with the DA ultimate compound again, then 205, then wax but not a ton of improvement. Improvement, but not on everything. I am putting a ton of pressure too the roof is flexing quite a bit during these stages, I even got to the point where both my hands are holding the D grip pushing down as hard as possible. DA heats up quite a bit and quickly when doing this.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

OK, so you've made some additional progress by stepping up the aggressiveness, and that's great. But everything has its limitations, and it may be a case where you've reached the limit of what you can do with this combination. Any chance we can get a picture of this uber stubborn scratch?

You're correct in equating "stubborn" with "hard" when it comes to paint, and as we mentioned previously it's quite common for VW paint to be on the hard side, sometimes very much so. This may well be a case where stepping up to the DAMF System is needed to really get the results you're chasing. If you can make it back to a TNOG we can give that a go with you.

[s word]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

I will try to get a picture of the scratch tonight. It is hard with this metallic paint in my garage. But i will manage.
I ordered a Brink Mann Dual Xenon yesterday to help myself in the future but that won't be here any time soon.
Yesterday I even switched spots on the car to see if I could improve similar situation on my hood. Same issues. I get like 80-90% of easy scratches. But there are just stubborn items that won't be removed.
Maybe if I worked a small area for an extreme amount of time, keeping the paint cool of course, I could potentially remove all the issues. But seeing that I would need to put a lot of time into 2"x2" area I hardly see me finishing the car anytime soon.
I am surprised the bird dropping etchings I had were removed so easily as compare to these surface scratches.

I will do my best to get out to the TNOG next week. I don't need the pizza anyway. Even if I get a few minutes of your time to look at what I am doing and how i can improve the paint it will help me greatly and will be worth the drive.

Also for my own knowledge, what would determine a need to move to the DAMF system over just a more aggressive compound like M105?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

Also for my own knowledge, what would determine a need to move to the DAMF system over just a more aggressive compound like M105?

This is actually a great question.

Every step up varies in how much more aggressive you're working the paint. M105 is a noticeable step up from Ultimate Compound when all else is equal - same pad, same tool, same speed, same pressure, etc. Normally it would be the next logical step, but that's if you'd done maybe three or four passes with UC and you weren't seeing much improvement at all. In this case, it sounds like you've been really going to town with UC and not making much progress at all. It becomes a bit of a judgement call to determine how big of a step up you need to take, but if you've been at it this aggressively this long with UC, it sure sounds like a fairly big step up is needed. And that's to the DAMF system.

You do get into overkill on the whole step up concept when you decide, for example, that ScratchX 2.0 isn't quite getting it done (after a single, light hand application) so you want to just go straight to wet sanding. That's not a step up, it's an express elevator to the roof. Laugh all you want (OK, maybe it wasn't that funny ) but we see this all the time.

[s word]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

Great, got it. Just want to correct that I am making progress on some of the scratches, what i would call light spider web. But the deeper (but not deep) non spider web scratches are clearly wanting to stick around. I do remember in the 101 class, that someone did make that jump when you said "if scratchX doesn't work what should I use?", they blurted out with some seriousness "wet sand". If left to my own resources I think I would have climbed the cut scale 1 by 1. Spending all the money required to spot the right correcting item. And likely losing a bit of my love for the hobby I enjoy very much. I don't think i will ever get to the desire to wet sand, and even for now I am not getting close to a rotary. I saw what was possible with the DAMF system in the 101 class and was thoroughly impressed with the ease of change on such a damaged car. I had a great deal of success on my wifes Honda Pilot with the DA, and was extremely bummed at the result of the same process on my car. Maybe the DAMF will bring back that perfect finish that I long for. Thanks again, and hope to see you guys Thursday.

[s word]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

My DAMF system arrived before the weekend. I was able to play with it a little bit. I used it on my hood and roof with great results. The scratches I was chasing with the pads were easily fixed by the DAMF. Now I can say that I had my DA use light bulb moment. When using the DAMF I realized that I was applying too much pressure, halting the rotation of the pads. I don't think I caught this before because I had confused the vibration of the pad with rotation But I can admit my dumb move. Now I keep a very close eye on the pads and rotation. Though this may not meet 100% approval on the forum, I saw no harm in making a tiny line/mark with a sharpie on the back of the pad so I can better visualize rotation. Then I pushed myself to get near even rotation speed on every section i worked. This actually resulted in the job being less of a struggle and more fun. I think I am still working area too fast so I need to slow down more and just focus, the "get it right the first time" still needs to be put to practice.

I had removed the badges on my wifes Honda Pilot a while back. Where Pilot was there was a nice shadow which clearly read Pilot. I used the DA and UC to rework the entire rear hatch. The shadow of Pilot is now 100% removed and the rear hatch is shiny and smooth as glass. Thanks for the tips on this imz4n!

Now that more people are seeing my results I have a backlog of cars ready for detailing . I only do this on the weekend as a hobby so it will take me a while to get them all completed.
Not sure anyone cares to see just thought I would share.

2000 Acura CL black (oxidation, headlight cleaning, swirls...)
2009 Acura RL near black/grey (headlight cleaning, swirls)
07 Toyota Tacoma silver (swirls, never been waxed)
2009 VW CC not mine, silver (swirls, generally well maintained)
2010 Mazda CX-9 deep blue metallic (swirls, paint transfer, paint replacement...regularly maintained)
Toyota Camry teal (never been waxed, swirls, needs proper in/out detailing)

[BillE]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

Ya gotta love the 'Sharpie Line'. It is probably one of the best tricks on learning to keep the pad flat to the surface.

Good to hear the DAMF worked for you...

Bill

[Hawkfanatic]

Re: G110v2 and Ultimate Compound not removing surface scratches

Yes, I had to but a white dot of paint on the backing plate where the "meguiars" is embossed to be able to visualize the rotation.