Water Marks/Tree Sap On Paint!

[CameoInvicta]

Hi, I am new to the fourm and am in need of some help. I am 14
years old and own a 1962 Buick Invitca. We (me and my mom)
have owned the car for about 6 years, my mom made the inital
purchase and I just recently bought it from her.

Ever since we have owned it there have been spots almost
covering the whole body, they resemble water spots. You can't
see them if you look at them straight on, you need to look at an
angle. I have tried everything I can think of to remove them. I
was wondering if there is a product out there that would remove
them? Or am I just wasting my time? Thanks for the help, it is
much appreciated.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Water Marks/Tree Sap On Paint!

Hi CameoInvicta,

I saw your registeration go through as I'm a fan of the Ivicta...

Ever since we have owned it there have been spots almost covering the whole body, they resemble water spots. You can't see them if you look at them straight on, you need to look at an angle.

I have tried everything I can think of to remove them. I
was wondering if there is a product out there that would remove
them? Or am I just wasting my time? Thanks for the help, it is
much appreciated.

First, do you know if this car has the original paint?

Second, we need to find out if they are above the surface deposts or below the surface etchings.

~~~~~~~~~

Type 1 & Type 2 Water Spots

There are two kinds of water spots,

1) Above Surface Mineral Deposits
2) Below Surface Water Spot Etchings


Type I Water Spots

Type I Water Spots are what Meguiar's refers to as Above Surface Bonded Contaminants. A Type I water spot is some type of deposit, often times a mineral deposit that was in the water source, sitting on top of the surface.

If you have Type I water spots, you can use either a clay bar or a paint cleaner like ScratchX by hand. Clay bars are for removing above surface defects and will typically do a good job of remove Type I water spots/deposits from off the surface. Sometimes you may have to follow the claying process with a paint cleaner like ScratchX to completely remove all traces of where the mineral deposits attached to the finish.

Type I Water Spots






Type II Water Spots - Deposits on the surface
Type II Water Spots are what Meguiar's refers to as Below Surface Defects. A Type II Water Spot is actually an etching in the surface where whatever was in the water was strong enough in it's chemical composition to actually eat or dissolve the paint and thus etch into the paint.

If you Type II Water Spots, you can use a paint cleaner by hand such as ScratchX, or a machine applied product such as a compound, paint cleaner, or cleaner/polish to machine clean the finish, removing a small amount of paint in an effort to level, or smooth out the finish. The goal is to remove just enough paint to level the surface with the lowest depths of the defect.

Just to be clear, removing Type II Water Spots means removing paint. As such, you are limited as to how much paint you can remove. In some cases you may want to check with a seasoned professional for their advise before attempting to remove below surface defects like Type II Water Spots.


Type II Water Spots - Etchings below the surface


Close-up of same photo above


Click here to add your comments or ask questions about this article...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Water Marks/Tree Sap On Paint!

Originally posted by CameoInvicta
I have tried everything I can think of to remove them. I
was wondering if there is a product out there that would remove
them? Or am I just wasting my time? Thanks for the help, it is
much appreciated.

Have you tried ScratchX by hand applied as directed in the below how to article?

How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX

How to use ScratchX by hand to remove defects like these,

1. Scratches
2. Swirls
3. Bird Dropping Etchings
4. Water spots
5. Scuff and Mars

++ = Success!

A couple of important notes to consider,

1) Clear coats are harder than traditional paints. This means they are more difficult to remove defects out of, especially by hand. This is part explains the increase in popularity of the Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher.

2) ScratchX is not a wipe-on, wipe-off product, (WOWO), it's more of a wipe on, work in product, (WOWI). You need to apply with a clean foam applicator pad and work the product in with a little passion.




Here is how to remove a bird dropping etching or an isolated scratch.[list=1][*] Only work a small area at a time - about 6 inch by 6 inch area or smaller[*] You can apply using a combination of circular motions and straight-line motions[*] Work the product against the finish until it looks as you have almost run out of product.[*] Re-apply the product and repeat the above steps 2-3 more times[/list=1]
When I apply ScratchX like I have listed above, I am able to get out about 95% of a bird dropping etching or isolated random scratches.

The trick is to work the product in until it just begins to disappear and to apply more than one application. You see, the ScratchX, like all Meguiar's Paint Cleaners, contain a diminishing abrasive, as you work ScratchX in, the microscopic diminishing abrasives gently abrade the surface removing small particles of paint. But as you work it in, these diminishing abrasives breakdown. Thus, they quit abrading the finish and actually polish the finish to a clear, high gloss. This diminishing action turned polishing action is a benefit to you because it enable you to work out defects without leaving scratches behind.

Because the diminishing abrasive breakdown, you need to re-apply and repeat the process until the defects are removed.

Note: You can rarely remove a bird dropping etching, or a scratch, from a clear-coated finish with one application.

"A little technique goes a long way"

ScratchX works, if you work it. It takes a little practice to get the hang of removing defects out of modern clear coats with hi-tech products like ScratchX. It' not like the old days with a traditional lacquer or enamel paint job where you could apply some old-fashioned rubbing compound and in a few passes, the scratch would be gone, (and so would a lot of your paint).

High gloss clear coats are thin delicate surface coatings that are easily dulled and easily scratched. Once they are dulled down and/or scratched, it takes the right product, the right technique together with the human element of care and passion to massage them back to a glistening gemstone.

Have patience, and if at first you don't succeed, try try again.

[CameoInvicta]

Thanks for the reply Mike, all of your advice is much appreciated.

First off, no, I don't believe that this is the original paint. It is the
original color but you can see overspray on some of the chrome
trim. Who ever repainted it did a very bad job. I know that the
factory did a much better job than that.

Anywho, from the pictures you posted I would have to guess that
I have type II water spots, I am not positive though. I will
definitley pick up some ScratchX, applicator pads, and Ultimate
Wipes from my local auto parts store. Where would I get the clay
bars? I haven't seen those before.

Also, somebody on a Buick board told me that if ScratchX and
clay bars don't work that the spots could be acid rain and that I
may need to have the whole car repainted. Is there a way to
fix the acid rain stains without repainting? Thanks for all the help
guys, I really hope I won't need it repainted. Better find some
numbers of some local paint shops .

[Mike Phillips]

One more question...

What color is this car and do you know if it's a clear coat finish or a non-clear coat finish, i.e. a single-stage paint?

When it comes to removing paint defects...

"You never know what you can do until you try"

On clean paint, draw your fingers over some of these spots and see if it feels like they are a defect above the surface, or if your finger falls into them, also look closely at them, try to determine if they are some kind of deposit on the surface or an etching below the surface.

If they are above the surface, you can try claying them with some detailing clay.

Next, pick a spot where you can easily identify the spots and try applying 2-3 applications of ScratchX to a small area, say about 5-7 inches square or round, or whatever...

The idea being to try to remove the spots in a small area. This of course means removing some paint around the spots if they are in fact etchings below the surface.

The below is from an article I wrote on trying to explain to people what it means to remove a scratch out of any material or coating. The same principals apply to trying to remove a Type II Water Spot.

~~~~~~~~~~~


In order to remove a scratch out of anything, metal, plastic glass, paint, etc. You must remove material around the scratch until the surface is level or equal to the lowest depths of the scratch or scratches.

The below diagram if for paint, the the same thing applies to just about an surface material or coating.



In essences, you don't really remove a scratch, you remove material around a scratch.

Then the big question is, is the material or coating workable, as in can you abrade small particles of it and leave behind an original looking surface. For example, some things you can abrade, (remove the scratch), but you can never completely remove all of your abrading marks, thus you can't really fix the problem, all you can do is exchange one set of scratches of a different set of scratches.

The next questions is, how thick is the surface material you're working on or the coating. You are limited to what you can do by the thickness of these to things, (surface coating or surface material), and whether or not this surface is workable.

Sometimes you don't know what you can so until you try. It's always a good idea to test your choice of products, applicator materials and application process, (By hand or by machine), to an inconspicuous area. If you cannot make a small area look good with your product, applicator and process, you will not be able to make the entire surface look good. It's always a good idea to test first and error on the side of caution, versus make a mistake you cannot undo.

~~~~~~~~~~~


What you want to do is see if you can remove the spots in one small area. If you can fix one small are by hand, you can fix the entire finish by hand.

If you can fix the entire area by hand, then chances are good you can probably fix the entire area using a dual action polisher.

If you can fix one small area by hand and this car is important to you, then the next step would be to think about investing in a dual action polisher because if the water spots are evenly distributed throughout the finish, that means you have a lot of area to cover and if the dual action polisher will remove these spots, it will save you a lot of time and energy plus produce better results.

[CameoInvicta]

Well, I picked some ScratchX from the local Target. Suprisingly
enough our local Napa didn't carry it .

Anywho, I applied about 4 coats of it with no luck. If anything you
can now see the spots better than ever . I guess the only
other thing to do is try the clay blocks.

If that doesn't work, I assume I will need to have it repainted? I
can't afford to throw alot of money into this at the moment as I
still need a set of headers, an exhaust bent up, mufflers, various
gaskets, etc. so I was wondering what your thoughts were on
getting it painted at Maaco. This is buy no means an award
winner but we do take it to local cruises and shows and I would
like it to at least be presentable. All help is appreciated and all
advice is welcome. Thanks guys.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by CameoInvicta
Well, I picked some ScratchX from the local Target. Surprisingly
enough our local NAPA didn't carry it .

Anywho, I applied about 4 coats of it with no luck. If

Just to double check...

It's not enough to apply scratchX, you need to work it against the finish. You need to take your applicator in hand and apply anywhere from 8 pounds to 15 pounds of pressure and work this product against the paint. You apply about 3/4 to 1 teaspoon to the pad, spread this product out over an area about the size of your two hands spread out on the surface and then put some passion behind the pad.

ScratchX is white in color, when applied and spread out it will appear as a white, or opaque film on the paint, (you wont' see this if your car is white, or light in color), you then work this product until it turns clear kind of like oil or even Vaseline but it's not completely gone and especially not dry on the paint. Then wipe off and either inspect, or repeat.

So just to double check... the above is how you applied and tested this product?

If so, and you didn't' improve the appearance of the paint, then the paint on your car is as hard as glass and chances are in order to fix the problem you're going to either buff the paint with a compound using a rotary buffer or repaint the car.

By the way, in a previous post I asked if the car was clear coated or not? Do you know? When you apply the ScratchX and then turn your applicator over are you seeing the color of the paint? or the color of the applicator?

[CameoInvicta]

Sorry I forgot to answer your question Mike, it slipped my mind. I
am unsure if it is clearcoated or not. I am using terry cloths and
if I turn it over I am seeing the color of the terry cloths not the
color of the paint. I did follow that procedure although I could
have used more pressure. I guess I will try to give it a few more
coats.

If this doesn't work how much do you think it would cost to have
a detail place use a rotary buffer and buff the whole car? Thanks
for the help guys.

[Mike Phillips]

Sounds like you have a clear coat finish and this validates that most clear coats are hard, not soft... at least compared to traditional single stage paints.

A quality rotary buff job will run between $200.00 and $300.00 the problem is finding a qualified pro who knows what he's doing and doesn't use archaic products.

For that kind of money, you could purchase all the things you need and perhaps learn to do it yourself.

Watch our how-to video here,

How to remove paint defects

Or you can purchase it here,

Professional Education Series Video