swirl advice needed?

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Yes, that makes sense. It is very easy to get fine spiderweb lines in the compound, polish and wax layers, sometimes. They usually fade with washing or when covered with spray wax over the following weeks, but other lines can also form easily, just in trying to detail the car. It's easy to clean/detail a car too much, hence we call these lines "love touches"

ya i feel like this was absolutely the problem. i also think the paint is hard because of the chipping if thats a valid way to tell??? and also they way the m101 and microfiber pad reacted with the paint

[drumdan]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Aside from the childish trolling from others, I'm pretty sure my point, not to mention MicrofiberMan's, was fairly clearly about spiderwebs, not paint hardness. Maybe drumdan can explain in detail why paint hardness is relevant to the OP's questions, or maybe Guz can explain why he, or anyone, comments on threads about cars he's not seen and worked on in person.

"It is possible that your paint is on the soft side. Meaning that it will marr easier than harder paints during washing and even during correcting." - Guz

If you read my post, I mentioned a series of potential issues, which turned out to be #3.

"..maybe Guz can explain why he, or anyone comments on threads about cars he's not seen and worked on in person.."

The fact that some forum members often work on a wide variety of vehicles, with varying paint types gives them a wider view, and more insight to potential problems. That's all. Anyone can regurgitate technical data that has been posted previously.

Barry Theal has coined the term "internet detailer" for this reason.

[Top Gear]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Yes, that makes sense. It is very easy to get fine spiderweb lines in the compound, polish and wax layers, sometimes. They usually fade with washing or when covered with spray wax over the following weeks, but other lines can also form easily, just in trying to detail the car. It's easy to clean/detail a car too much, hence we call these lines "love touches"

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: swirl advice needed?

i think my paint is hard, its got a ton of chips and m105 on a microfiber pad on my test spot with a scratch in it didnt make a dent in one section pass with six pasees thier was a small diffrence starting to appear the second time.

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Swirls/spiderwebs are inevitable for a driven car. While you can reduce them by being very careful about washing, they will happen just from driving, weather, and other care. One bad wash is enough to totally swirl up the finish, which is why people who wash their car a lot often have the most spiderwebs.

Once you get the paint swirl-free (or close enough), and if the paint is properly protected (lots of polish and wax), the majority of spiderwebs you'll create are just happening in the waxy polish layers on top. Those will be easy to remove with a re-waxing, especially with a cleaner-wax. However, the longer you go without doing this to return to lush protection, the more likely the polish and wax will be gone and your washing will be marring the paint itself again.

Among the tricks I've learned on this site is to rely on waterless methods more than bucket washing, especially using UWWA/D115, followed by GCQW. These products clean and fill and finish so nicely, the paint can appear to be swirl-free longer, until there is an opportunity to re-wax properly (I just went 6 months like that).

So, you're right in all respects. Swirls and spiderwebs are either being removed or hidden with polishing oils, and they return or get created no matter how careful you are, due to washing and wiping - it's just a matter of how fast and how strongly. Whether they are exactly the same lines or not seems difficult to know for sure. I'd think both are the case, such that there are some lines we haven't removed that reappear from underneath the polish as it wears away, and others that are created that can be removed more easily with re-waxing or correction.

The only hope for sanity is to regularly re-wax and use waterless tricks in between, being very careful with fewer bucket washes. Also, make sure you take the golden opportunity to re-wax with QW after every bucket wash, too. Ideally, every month or so, you can re-wax with the hand/machine wax. I say ideally, because life can get in the way, but you don't want to just wait for the wax to wear away because someone said it would last X amount of months, etc.

great advice and exactly right, it was in the waxy layers and
a rewax is what fixed it, you are always right on man thanks alot

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: swirl advice needed?

i think i figured it out, i put to many coats of different products starting with klasse sealeant glaze. it looks like the swirls were in the lsp if that makes sense? i dont know but its back to looking great now, few minor swirls but barley noticeable. paint looks like glass wish i could show you guys a picture

[Top Gear]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Aside from the childish trolling from others, I'm pretty sure my point, not to mention MicrofiberMan's, was fairly clearly about spiderwebs, not paint hardness. Maybe drumdan can explain in detail why paint hardness is relevant to the OP's questions, or maybe Guz can explain why he, or anyone, comments on threads about cars he's not seen and worked on in person.

[The Guz]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Kind of like assuming all new paint is "hard", right?

Is there a forum rule that explicitly states that forum members must not contribute after Top Gear has spoken?

It contradicts the forums purpose if we sensor dialogue after you have posted. It just doesn't make any sense to think that way.

It's entirely possible that the OP has either:
1. Never got the defects out
2. Has extremely sensitive paint
3. Has abusive washing/maintenance techniques.

Your assertions lead me to suspect that you haven't had experience with a wide variety of paint systems. If that is infact the case, much misinformation might be originating with you.

Have you ever polished a car that even wiping wax off with a soft microfiber will mar it? Do you know what to do when that happens? Have you ever worked on the same car - once in the sun, and once in the shade, and have to compensate for changes in the behavior of the hot paint?

I could go on, but you get the point.

It would be really helpful if you could provide some first hand accounts of a new Kia you've polished. Give the OP, and anyone else needing help a detailed summary of the products, techniques, tools, etc used in the process.

Great post. You pointed out a lot of things to consider. We really don't know what is going on with the op's paint without physically being there.

[drumdan]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Good grief there's a lot of misinformation and thread-jacking above, after my last post. No wonder people are confused who come to these forums expecting help.

Once again, it is a totally unproven assumption that any new paint is soft. Korean paints tend to be very hard, BTW. It's quite unlikely that paint hardness is the problem in this thread, or even relevant. The topic above was how swirls form and why or how they return, as MicrofiberMan said, even after they were seen to be corrected.

Kind of like assuming all new paint is "hard", right?

Is there a forum rule that explicitly states that forum members must not contribute after Top Gear has spoken?

It contradicts the forums purpose if we sensor dialogue after you have posted. It just doesn't make any sense to think that way.

It's entirely possible that the OP has either:
1. Never got the defects out
2. Has extremely sensitive paint
3. Has abusive washing/maintenance techniques.

Your assertions lead me to suspect that you haven't had experience with a wide variety of paint systems. If that is infact the case, much misinformation might be originating with you.

Have you ever polished a car that even wiping wax off with a soft microfiber will mar it? Do you know what to do when that happens? Have you ever worked on the same car - once in the sun, and once in the shade, and have to compensate for changes in the behavior of the hot paint?

I could go on, but you get the point.

It would be really helpful if you could provide some first hand accounts of a new Kia you've polished. Give the OP, and anyone else needing help a detailed summary of the products, techniques, tools, etc used in the process.

[Top Gear]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Good grief there's a lot of misinformation and thread-jacking above, after my last post. No wonder people are confused who come to these forums expecting help.

Once again, it is a totally unproven assumption that any new paint is soft. Korean paints tend to be very hard, BTW. It's quite unlikely that paint hardness is the problem in this thread, or even relevant. The topic above was how swirls form and why or how they return, as MicrofiberMan said, even after they were seen to be corrected.

[The Guz]

Re: swirl advice needed?

FYI: someone in another thread mentioned that some Korean (Hyundai) cars had very hard paint, be careful and ask around because scratch proof paint can be quite tricky.

I have also spoken to a local guy that has a 2014 Kia Sorento and he is on the opposite of the spectrum with him saying it has soft paint. I recall him saying that Car Pro Essence marred the paint during his test spot and that is an AIO. The only way to know is with the test spot that is often preached about so many times.

[amblin83]

Re: swirl advice needed?

FYI: someone in another thread mentioned that some Korean (Hyundai) cars had very hard paint, be careful and ask around because scratch proof paint can be quite tricky.

[amblin83]

Re: swirl advice needed?

I will also add to try M205 on a finishing pad instead of a polishing pad to see if it finishes out better. M205 takes a little more technique to finish out on softer paint. Another option is to try ultimate polish instead as it has less cut to it than M205. I would say to use a prep product (Car Pro Eraser, Optimum Paint Prep, etc) to remove the polishing oils left behind from either product especially if you use ultimate polish to see the true condition. Ultimate Polish contains more polishing oils than M205. In my opinion IPA is not that great to remove polishing oils.

What is your wash regiment and what tools are you using to wash the car?

Indeed, I just polished a friend's black Toyota Highlander using a battery powered rotary with Meg's yellow pad and M205. My god the softness of that CC totally astonished me, just 3 very quick passes with medium-light pressure @ 1800-3600 rpm removed 90% of the defects... this method won't even remove a very light wiping mark on my merc.

i brought a case of almost expired sonax aerosol degrease last year at 1/4 retail , very, very effective, it can even be used to strip polymer sealants.

(I was lazy and didn't want to use the black finishing pad, difficult to clean) lol

[The Guz]

Re: swirl advice needed?

I will also add to try M205 on a finishing pad instead of a polishing pad to see if it finishes out better. M205 takes a little more technique to finish out on softer paint. Another option is to try ultimate polish instead as it has less cut to it than M205. I would say to use a prep product (Car Pro Eraser, Optimum Paint Prep, etc) to remove the polishing oils left behind from either product especially if you use ultimate polish to see the true condition. Ultimate Polish contains more polishing oils than M205. In my opinion IPA is not that great to remove polishing oils.

What is your wash regiment and what tools are you using to wash the car?

[The Guz]

Re: swirl advice needed?

It is possible that your paint is on the soft side. Meaning that it will marr easier than harder paints during washing and even during correcting.

Did you try a test spot prior to going with such an aggressive approach the first time?