Is this crazy?

[uziel5000]

Hi everyone,

Total newbie to the wonderful world of detailing.

Here's the scenario that's been running through my head lately: I keep hearing about how synthetic waxes like Ultimate Wax can be more durable than carnauba based waxes. I also keep hearing about how the "pro's" prefer the richer, fuller look of carnauba. So, why not have your cake and eat it too? Apply a coat of Ultimate wax, then follow that with a coat of something like Gold Class Carnauba Plus. Wouldn't that give you the durability of one and the enhancement of the other? Heck you could do the Ultimate Wax pass with the DA Polisher and the Gold Class pass with paste by hand just to cover all the bases.

So is this plausible or completely stupid?

[The Guz]

Re: Is this crazy?

Quite a few people do this on various detailing forums. It is referred to as topping.

When topping it is recommended to allow the sealant to cure for 12-24 hours so that the polymers can cross link and form a strong bond.

One other thing to note is that the surface tension is changed by topping. The characteristics of water beading and sheeting will be that of the topper.

[uziel5000]

Re: Is this crazy?

Quite a few people do this on various detailing forums. It is referred to as topping.

When topping it is recommended to allow the sealant to cure for 12-24 hours so that the polymers can cross link and form a strong bond.

One other thing to note is that the surface tension is changed by topping. The characteristics of water beading and sheeting will be that of the topper.

Great. But will the durability characteristics of the sealant still "work"?

[BillyJack]

Re: Is this crazy?

Great. But will the durability characteristics of the sealant still "work"?

Yes, since you've not taken away any of the sealant, just added to it.

Bill

[The Guz]

Re: Is this crazy?

Yes, since you've not taken away any of the sealant, just added to it.

Bill

Exactly this.

[Top Gear]

Re: Is this crazy?

LOL, it's all a bit of a wives' tale In the real world of weather and daily driver washing, so-called sealants really don't last any longer, because the other part of that myth is that you're comparing a sealant to a pure carnauba wax, which is not what Gold Class/M26, Detailer D301 Finishing Wax, Deep Crystal or the others from Meguiar's are - they are all blends. That's a good thing, because basically, by using just one coat of a Meguiar's carnauba wax, like Gold Class for example, you're already "topping", in a way, getting the benefits of each, polymers with carnauba. The other myth is that "topping" does anything more than remove one layer (or compromise it) while you're applying the next. By using two different Meguiar's products, you're also basically applying two types of blends, one of which has some carnauba and may have a finishing look other than silver/white gloss.

In the end, it doesn't matter what you apply for protection with regard to longevity, because that next couple of days of windy rainstorms, or day-long bakes in the sun without being spotlessly clean and waxed, or that long trip leaving bugs and grit all over the paint, or an overly aggressive wash, will together or individually wear away at your wax/sealant coat very, very quickly. If you think you can apply a popular sealant and just wash it regularly and wait out the months that someone on a discussion forum said it was supposed to last, then you're totally fooling yourself. As you wait weeks for the rain or wash water to stop beading, you're already exposing your finish to daily assaults of sun and weather. Even if a straight "sealant" lasted twice as long as a Meguiar's carnauba-enriched wax (and it won't), that would still be a week or two - all things equal - and that's hardly worth the argument.

Sure, that velvety luscious "look and feel" of a fresh carnauba-enriched wax can seem to go away fairly quickly, but don't forget the other aspects of the blended protection are still there for a while longer. It's far easier just to boost your fav wax/sealant very regularly with a matching Quik Wax, cleaning the surface as needed with waterless washes like UWWA and/or gentle suds from UWW or GC Shampoo. Re-waxing every month or so as needed is easy enough with a DA.

[The Guz]

Re: Is this crazy?

LOL, it's all a bit of a wives' tale In the real world of weather and daily driver washing, so-called sealants really don't last any longer, because the other part of that myth is that you're comparing a sealant to a pure carnauba wax, which is not what Gold Class/M26, Detailer D301 Finishing Wax, Deep Crystal or the others from Meguiar's are - they are all blends. That's a good thing, because basically, by using just one coat of a Meguiar's carnauba wax, like Gold Class for example, you're already "topping", in a way, getting the benefits of each, polymers with carnauba. The other myth is that "topping" does anything more than remove one layer (or compromise it) while you're applying the next. By using two different Meguiar's products, you're also basically applying two types of blends, one of which has some carnauba and may have a finishing look other than silver/white gloss.

In the end, it doesn't matter what you apply for protection with regard to longevity, because that next couple of days of windy rainstorms, or day-long bakes in the sun without being spotlessly clean and waxed, or that long trip leaving bugs and grit all over the paint, or an overly aggressive wash, will together or individually wear away at your wax/sealant coat very, very quickly. If you think you can apply a popular sealant and just wash it regularly and wait out the months that someone on a discussion forum said it was supposed to last, then you're totally fooling yourself. As you wait weeks for the rain or wash water to stop beading, you're already exposing your finish to daily assaults of sun and weather. Even if a straight "sealant" lasted twice as long as a Meguiar's carnauba-enriched wax (and it won't), that would still be a week or two - all things equal - and that's hardly worth the argument.

Sure, that velvety luscious "look and feel" of a fresh carnauba-enriched wax can seem to go away fairly quickly, but don't forget the other aspects of the blended protection are still there for a while longer. It's far easier just to boost your fav wax/sealant very regularly with a matching Quik Wax, cleaning the surface as needed with waterless washes like UWWA and/or gentle suds from UWW or GC Shampoo. Re-waxing every month or so as needed is easy enough with a DA.

[Blueline]

Re: Is this crazy?

LOL, it's all a bit of a wives' tale

I love ole wives tales and myths and I read so many, I cannot stop laughing. I used to try to debunk them but gave up.

[uziel5000]

Re: Is this crazy?

LOL, it's all a bit of a wives' tale In the real world of weather and daily driver washing, so-called sealants really don't last any longer, because the other part of that myth is that you're comparing a sealant to a pure carnauba wax, which is not what Gold Class/M26, Detailer D301 Finishing Wax, Deep Crystal or the others from Meguiar's are - they are all blends. That's a good thing, because basically, by using just one coat of a Meguiar's carnauba wax, like Gold Class for example, you're already "topping", in a way, getting the benefits of each, polymers with carnauba. The other myth is that "topping" does anything more than remove one layer (or compromise it) while you're applying the next. By using two different Meguiar's products, you're also basically applying two types of blends, one of which has some carnauba and may have a finishing look other than silver/white gloss.

In the end, it doesn't matter what you apply for protection with regard to longevity, because that next couple of days of windy rainstorms, or day-long bakes in the sun without being spotlessly clean and waxed, or that long trip leaving bugs and grit all over the paint, or an overly aggressive wash, will together or individually wear away at your wax/sealant coat very, very quickly. If you think you can apply a popular sealant and just wash it regularly and wait out the months that someone on a discussion forum said it was supposed to last, then you're totally fooling yourself. As you wait weeks for the rain or wash water to stop beading, you're already exposing your finish to daily assaults of sun and weather. Even if a straight "sealant" lasted twice as long as a Meguiar's carnauba-enriched wax (and it won't), that would still be a week or two - all things equal - and that's hardly worth the argument.

Sure, that velvety luscious "look and feel" of a fresh carnauba-enriched wax can seem to go away fairly quickly, but don't forget the other aspects of the blended protection are still there for a while longer. It's far easier just to boost your fav wax/sealant very regularly with a matching Quik Wax, cleaning the surface as needed with waterless washes like UWWA and/or gentle suds from UWW or GC Shampoo. Re-waxing every month or so as needed is easy enough with a DA.

I.. err, ok, you lost me. LOL

Let me see if I understood: You are saying that wax -synthetic or otherwise- doesn't last very long but that some people think that when carnauba loses its "luscious" look it has stopped protecting altogether (it hasn't) which leads to the "sealant lasts longer" myth. Did I get it?

However, I could take that to mean that in fact, carnauba products give a "better" look. But if both protect about the same, what's the point of synthetic? You got two products. Both protect the same but one of them also enhances the look of the vehicle better than the other. Who would pick the one that doesn't? I must be missing something here...

Believe me, I'm not questioning your point. Quite the contrary, I'm trying to sort this out. I have no wish to double my work by applying wax twice... unless there is a true advantage to doing it.

[RPPM]

Re: Is this crazy?

Uhm, no this isn't true. No less an authority than Meguiars own Mr. Mike Stoops debunked what Top Gear said about carnauba wax/polymer blends vs. pure sealants and longevity. Please stop spreading false information. Just because there is a "polymer" in Megs GC+ doesn't mean it will last close to as long as say Megs ULC. There are all different kinds of polymers, some manmade, some occurring naturally. Some make the product easier to use, etc.

Go ahead and top your sealant with a wax if you want No harm in it. Will it last longer? It might. It won't do any harm. Do what feels best for you.

[BillyJack]

Re: Is this crazy?

Well put, Kris.
I learned this years ago, long before internet forums. Back in the previous millennium, I'd use M26 on my Camino, since it made to paint pop so well, but it wouldn't last. Rub it with NXT, then apply the M26 and you had the best of both, appearance and longevity.

Bill

[RPPM]

Re: Is this crazy?

Exactly Bill!! Besides, it is fun if you are doing it as a hobby!

[The Guz]

Re: Is this crazy?

Uhm, no this isn't true. No less an authority than Meguiars own Mr. Mike Stoops debunked what Top Gear said about carnauba wax/polymer blends vs. pure sealants and longevity. Please stop spreading false information. Just because there is a "polymer" in Megs GC+ doesn't mean it will last close to as long as say Megs ULC. There are all different kinds of polymers, some manmade, some occurring naturally. Some make the product easier to use, etc.

Go ahead and top your sealant with a wax if you want No harm in it. Will it last longer? It might. It won't do any harm. Do what feels best for you.

Well said

Besides, it is fun if you are doing it as a hobby!

I agree.

[uziel5000]

Re: Is this crazy?

Thanks to everyone! It took some searching but I found some articles that address this very issue and it seems to be a very popular (if work-intensive) strategy actually. So I'm not as crazy as I initially though apparently. Either that, or there's a lot of enthusiasts out there with the same level of crazy as me in which case, I seem to have finally found my kind of people. LOL

[BillyJack]

Re: Is this crazy?

It's not as work-intensive as you may think once you get your technique dialed in. If you've done all the preparation and have a good coat of a base wax/ sealant down, the topper layer is a breeze. I do almost everything possible by machine, but I'll often put my last step wax on by hand, since that's kinda the "icing on the cake" and more rewarding.

Bill